Private lesson, think I handled this badly. What to do?

[ZZZenAgain]

I pay for a 45 minutes lesson for dd. Often teacher gets there a bit late or has a pupil beforehand and that lessons runs over or the pupil after dd arrives early. In effect it is often closer to 30 minutes than 45 for these reasons.

Nw it isn't the end of the world and she is a good teacher but it kind of rankles. Today we got there on time for the lesson at 3.30. She had a pupil there and they kept on working together till 3.45 (so 15 minutes really into dd's lesson). Then the mother came in to pick up her child and was there chatting for 5 minutes.

So the lesson began actually 20 minutes later and I asked if she would prefer us to come a bit later but she said no, there would still be enough time to fit in dd's lesson.

She stopped after 30 min. So I asked her about that and said I would like dd to have a full 45 minute lesson because I think she needs it but the teacher said , "it was 45 minutes." And I didn't know what to say really. She looked quite angry and I realised I had handled it badly but didn't quite see what to do about it.

What should I have done? Should I just forget about the actual length of the lesson in future? Was it being a bit picky to bring that up?

Mollie I will ask whether we can swop lessons with the girl who was before as on Wednesday. That's an idea.

It is all compounded by dd not being happy with the orchestra set-up just atm which she used to love, just moved up to the next orchestra level and being new and one of the youngest, has to play the 3rd violin. Problem is what else could the teacher do really? As far as I can see, someone has to play it but the parts for the 3rd violin are so easy, she is frustrated with that too. At home she practices the 1st (I suppose they all do that) but when she is there she plays the 3rd.

Just don't really feel I can say anything about the orchestra pieces (a- because I don't know anything about it and b- it seems OTT if I mention the time, the pieces she plays and the orchestra thing).

Teacher will start to think I am a nut job so leaving it with the time. All a bit unsatisfactory atm which is a shame. Last year was great on the whole.

You need to put your cards on the table with the teacher, completely and utterly. I know this is hard, but it's kinder to the teacher than just leaving and the teacher not knowing why (and if she's scatty, she may genuinely not know). I've occasionally had pupils leave who I thought were doing really well and were really happy....it happens only very rarely but is bewildering when it does. I'd always rather a parent put their cards straight on the table.

However, it's not good enough that you're not getting what you pay for. I occasionally overrun (by 5 mins, not 15) but then I always make sure subsequent pupils get their full time. I don't run too many together in one go. Music lessons are expensive and if you work out what you are paying per minute, it's a sobering thought (and one I as a music teacher always keep to the forefront of my mind).

I know it's tricky, though. DD2's ice skating coach tends to chat to other kids quite a lot during DD's lesson. I always think "I'm paying for this" but have never said anything! But if it rankled enough to consider another teacher, it would be only fair to. Good luck!

"You need to put your cards on the table with the teacher, completely and utterly."

Er, she did. The OP said "the teacher said, 'it was 45 minutes.' And I didn't know what to say really. She looked quite angry". So not only is the teacher not giving good value, is giving the DD unsuitable pieces, is not listening to concerns but she is also trying to intimidate her customer into believing that it is the customer who is in the wrong!
I don't see why zen has to be nice to the teacher.

No, I didn't mean initially, I saw that. What I meant was I meant to explain it completely, the whole situation, everything OP is unhappy with, at a time when the teacher couldn't fob her off or pretend she was caught on the hop. I think you misinterpreted me.

Something along the lines of the lessons are always short, she's paying for 45 minutes, she's upset she's regularly not getting it, her DD isn't happy with x and y, and to say she is thinking a change about a change of teacher because of it, and is there any way forward.

To be honest, the pieces don't sound unsuitable as such, just that they aren't suiting the child at the moment - something the teacher needs to be told. Some children love tackling really hard stuff and are motivated, others are intimidated and put off. The teacher should judge this better, yes, but often won't know how a child is reacting at home if it isn't said. I've had parents phone me and tell me a child doesn't like playing x and I've had no idea because the child has always seemed really happy in the lessons. I always say, of course they don't have to do a piece they don't like - but I do need to be told.

The orchestra situation is just one of those things, I'm afraid. 3rd violins is like corps de ballet, very annoying and tedious when you know you can do better, but good for you in a way you won't appreciate until much later. I'd stick that out, she won't be there for ever and it's something that will definitely improve. They pretty much have to put her there to start with but she won't stay there too long, I'm sure.

Before I'm flamed for defending the teacher, the teacher is definitely in the wrong here, there's no doubt about that at all. But I suspect she may not be thinking about that if her time management is poor and with a very direct discussion it might be resolved. After all, it sounds like there are good points if only the issues can be sorted out - and a different teacher will always create a slight loss of continuity. Sometimes it is obviously the only way, but I would say that even with the best teacher in the world a child will lose about a term of progress whilst the new teacher and student get used to each other.

ok I'll do it, thanks posy. I'll call her tomorrow morning.

This current that she hates so much, she can play now but the frustrating thing was it includes many things which at the time she was given it, she did not know/understand. (I know nothing about it so I couldn't help) Then it was the holidays so she tried to figure it out for herself without a lesson for quite a long time and when she then had a lesson again after the holidays, found she had been practising a lot of it wrong IYSWIM.

It isn't such a big deal in the end but she really really hates it so we went to a music store on Friday and bought her some new stuff she feels like playing and she has just been doing her own thing - and happier with that. I'll give the teacher a call tomorrow morning and chat about the whole situation, see what can be done about it. Bit late to learn a new piece for the concert but maybe she can just not perform this time or maybe the teacher can get her to like it, we'll see.

Yes, may have to just accept the orchestra situation atm I think. I said she could ask the teacher to listen to her play the 2nd/1st violin in her lesson, see if she is getting it right, but just continue to play the 3rd when she is at the orchestra. Yes, I suppose you are right, dd says nothing about it during the lesson but cries at home about it afterwards.

What did you mean about the longer term positive effects of playing easier orchestra pieces, I didn't really get that, or did you mean just accepting things that are not how you would like them. Learning to just go along peacefully with life the way it is?
Motherhood eh? Minefield

We all see this from our own perspective. I come at this from the mother's angle and posy comes at it from the teacher's angle.

zen has tried to speak to the teacher and the teacher has been brusque and unsympathetic. zen already feels that a music-teacher's-child is getting preferential treatment over her DD.

I have been that mother worrying about the quality of music lessons and, in my case, my hunch was right (and I know nothing about music!). In your case, I would worry that the teacher would not handle it well if I discussed it again - she didn't exactly cover herself in glory last time and hasn't approached zen to apologise or explain. I would also worry that she would take it out on my DD. I would have a back-up plan (i.e. a replacement teacher) before I raised the topic because the worst case scenario is that the teacher would take the hump, she would sack me and the DD would be teacherless. (Re-reading the thread, I see zen already fears this.) I second boffinmum who says that this is a personal relationship: the question is whether you still feel that you have trust in her, or have you been bowed because you think that there is an inequality in the relationship because of the scarcity of music teachers (is this still true BTW or are they feeling the recession like the rest of us?)

thanks senua. Well dithered about all week and then I sent her an email about it. Tried calling a couple of times but only got the answering machine. Haven't heard anything back so either she didn't see the mail or is annoyed

.....scared and need to grow up fast emoticon.

Have the lesson today so will see how it goes also wrt time.

I don't know that violin teachers are scarce here senua. What instrument was it? Just not every violinist maybe has the gift for working with dc. I know I couldn't do it, would drive me nuts.

mind you having read the neighbour with the scaffolding thread, this is really a piece of cake to handle in comparison!

ZZ I really feel for you as we have a similar scenario with my DD piano teacher. He does offer only 30 mins lessons but each lesson runs straight on ie 3.30 - 4 pm and then 4 pm to 4.30 pm. No time for handover or settling in etc. My DD is at the younger end of his pupils and an older pupil comes before her and after her. She frequently gets effectively a 20 min lesson as it does not start unitl pupil l leaves and then finishes when pupil 3 arrives (often early.)

He is great with DD but I too quietly seethe, especially as the lesson takes place in his house and he just does not answer door until pupil 1 has finished. So at 5 past 4 he opens door and says 'oh Bob was just finishing off' then when Fred arrives early he opens door and shoos my DD out!!! I have suggested changing times but like you think he is an excellent teacher but is just a tad - well - greedy in not wanting to allow any time breaks in between lesson (even just 5 mins) to allow pupils to actually get a full lesson!.

so you have decided to just accept it for now? Rather 20 minutes with a teacher who works well with your dc than 30 with a teacher who manages to stress/put off your dc I suppose.

I observed a group lesson last Saturday with dd (Suzuki - so those dc have a private lesson and a group one). I found the teacher varied in her approach but sharp, very sharp and I found I was on the edge of my seat at the end so uncomfortable for one of the girls who was told that she had played an ugly note etc

Maybe I'm too protective and should back off but although I could see how this teacher I was able to observe would be thorough and successful in some regards (posture,etc), I just had my doubts about how some of it was done.

eek just got an email back.
scared to open it

such a coward!

c'mon. Open it.

we are agog

forward it to me.
I'll open it

who's the dc eh? lol Hate confrontation , people-problems

ok she wrote:

Dear Zen, I often think that is the most difficult thing, finding pieces that are not too easy and therefore boring (orchestra atm) or too difficult. The pieces need to stretch her without making her feel overwhelmed. We'll have a look at it together this afternoon.

sounds ok, doesn't it? I don't about the time, I didn't bring that up again in the mail, might have been overkill.

Don't be scared.

Hi Zen-think we've "talked" before about music related stuff. If your DD is at g5-6 level then she's doing well and I'm surprised that the teacher would push a tricky g8 level piece rather than developing your DD's tone, technique etc. if your DD isn't enjoying it. DD had a g5 piece (harp not violin) that was also on the lists for Diploma students. DD got 28/30 for it in her exam so played it well, but hearing it played by a Diploma level student brought home how much more could be done with the piece IYSWIM. I'm always wary of teachers that go for higher level pieces (for want of a better description) rather than breadth, especially with primary kids.

BTW-what's the hated piece?

Vittorio Monti, Czardas marialuisa.

Well we had the lesson and she (teacher) did respond to what I had said but tbh I didn't feel good about it, felt she was hurt. Couldn't look me in the face. She was ok with dd but she said about that piece she had thought dd was a fighter and that since she pretty much had the piece now, she should perform it but then said she did not have to. It's not that it is a bad piece. Had dd been having regular lessons when she tried to learn it originally, I think it would have been ok.

Bummer, feel crap about the teacher. Feel I have hurt her but tbh when I watched the lesson today, I didn't think it was very good and we had the dad of the previous pupil there today. She finished about 5 minutes late and then had dd and that pupil practice a piece together which is ok, quite nice I thought but then the dad decided to move a table around, painstakingly fold his newspaper and open and shut his briefcase, talk to his dd about this and that whilst she got her coat on and the violin packed and they were finally out the door 20 minutes into dd's lesson. I find them nice enough but to me it's a wee bit thoughtless, I am out the door when the lesson is over.

So still don't really know. Will I think keep looking into an alternative. Thanks everyone for holding my hand!

I teach music lessons and I don't think you were being unreasonable. At the end of the day, lessons are expensive and your DD is missing out on a third of her lesson.

Wht are you taking this. She is not the only good teacher out there, find another one!

I'm looking, I'M looking redsuede

I observed one lesson, spoke to another two teachers. Too knackered this week. We have a lot on right now, these concerts, choir concert, MN things like that. I will stick with this teacher till Christmas so I can finish by giving her a nice Christmas gift and the Christmas concerts etc. Will try to have someone new willing to take dd on from January.

She also needs a bigger violin now. So it is time when I have to consider whether it is worth continuing really and buying an expensive instrument that will last her, or not. Am slightly inclined towards giving it up, at least the lessons....

End of the day - you're paying for a service you're not getting with the time thing (and to a lesser extent with the pieces thing I guess). Yes she might have been upset - but she's got to be professional enough to deal with that - I feel upset when I lose an academic tutee I'm just making progress with - but then again, if they've made that progress... I've done what I was there to do really.

Now you'd be handling things badly if you expected lessons arraged at 30 minutes notice, cancelled with 45 minutes to go before a lesson, cancelled for months at a time but wanted the timeslot left free (I've turned about 5 kids away because of keeping that slot open) - all of which I've had done to me in the last month - grrrr! (I need to work on my own assertiveness training)

ZZZen* - my initial thoughts when I first read your OP were that this teacher may have recently taken on some new pupils in order to maximise her income and on top of that is not managing her time in the lesson.

She is short changing you. There are loads of good music teachers out there and you should ask around other parents. You/DD have a right to 45 minutes uniterrupted teaching time or a massive cut in the fee.

I would be furious if our music teacher short changed dd repeatedly and did not make it up somehow. If I were you I'd say that 'it's probably best to go back to a 30 minute lesson'. The teacher will know you're on the rampage and keep to the 30 minutes, I predict, so at least you'll get what you're paying for. You can go back to 45 minutes in 6 months if it is working out.

As for an expensive instrument - don't do it! Not at the age your dd is. It will just create angst. My dd got up through gr 8 (distinction) with cheap instruments - borrowed a vg instrument for two months in run up to actual gr 8 exam which helped. She now has expensive instrument, insured to the hilt, but not until age 16! It meant all the more to her to have to work hard for it.

thanks guys, I see we needto change teacher.

You convinced me so easily not to buy an expensive instrument lol. Prices are a joke, aren't they? Good grief. Well seems I can rent one and so if she wants to continue with a different teacher in Jan, we'll do that.

I'm sadly a total ignoramus when it comes to music, so it is a big help to have heard teacher and knowledgable parents' point of view. Thanks