Coping with Teacher Training days

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I'm new to education, DS1 in reception DS2 19 months old. But this is really going to get right up my nose. Teacher training days tagged onto half terms. 1st one Friday just before the weeks break.

How do mums cope? Ive got something planned - booked months and months ago and have to leave really early and now just checked diary and DS1 is home and I'm paying for DS2 to be in nursery!

Why cant they do these training days in the evenings or even Saturday morning like the rest of us? Why has education have to be so disrupted? Surely with the number of weeks off they get it wouldnt be too much to expect a few days to be put towards training?

Struth, we are self employed here, hubby never hardly gets time off, when we were farming we worked well unto the night, expected to get up at the crack of dawn, 7 days a week, working when completely exhausted and so hanging and no paid holidays!

So many families are struggling with childcare, trying to hold onto their jobs, and then this is slapped in our faces.

Surely this doesnt happen on the continent??

WhatsWrongWithYou I'm just trying to point out to fivecandles that things aren't as simple as she wants them to be.

'my implication is that if I can't be there to care for my children I prefer it to be someone who knows my child well or is trained to care for children'

Mine too which is why I love the couple who provide out of school care at my kids' school.

'but it seems you feel that anyone will do as long as the school organises it for you'

Excuse me?? Where the Hell did I say that?

'which is your choice but wouldn't be mine.'

I would expect the people who look after the children to be properly vetted, interviews and qualified which they would have to be given that they would be working in a school.

And as I have said several times there would be no compulsion to use the service.

I don't know why you assume that anyone employed by a school would be automatically rubbish at looking after kids. In fact, the opposite would be true.

The workers would be CRB checked, interviewed, qualified and trained which is probably more than can be said for a lot of the people who working parents end up using to look after their kids.

So now you want the school to take responsibility for employing people on benefits and doing CRB checks and ensuring they are suitably trained fivecandles? Think we might have to pay more for trained people even if they are currently unemployed

Imagining what things would be like if mrz and co were in charge of the world:

what do we need a wheel for? We're perfectly all right as we are.

What do we need schools for? Can't you educate your own children. I can.

What do you mean we need roads? How will we fit all the cars on them? Why can't you just walk anyway. I do.

Imagine how they would be if you were in charge

I need a wheel ... yes of course that square one will do...no I don't want to think about it ...let's rush production it will be fine ...

mrz if you're going to take part in this discussion you need to pay attention to what is being said.

Anyone working with children needs CRB checks and to be qualified and trained.

It wasn't be who suggested that all the workers would come from people currently on benefits. That was you. So you're now taking issue with points that you raised earlier.

In fact, I initially suggested using people who were already employed by the school or the LEA to do out of school care. But there are lots of alternatives as I've outlined. And if people ended up being taken off benefits and trained so much the better. What possible objections can you have to that?

Do you feel that you're actually just arguing for the sake of it mrz? Because there's not a huge amount that you're saying that's in any way logical.

First you assume that out of school workers would be rubbish and unsafe and now you're complaining that they'd actually be trained.

Strange, very strange.

Quite surprised that I've given you the impression that I've given this no thought. In fact, I've devoted more time and effort to it than I would have believed possible.

Yet, you're still raising very strange objections.

Why?

Please answer my question. Why does it bother you so much to think that there would be a provision to look after children during INSET days for those working parents who would choose to use it??

What exactly is your problem?

fivecandles I'm well aware that those working with children need to be CRB checked but legally they don't need to be "qualified" (I wasn't sure if you were waiving the requirement in your haste to get people in for INSET days - pleased you aren't) and I do know some private day care providers are happy to employ staff with a level 1 NVQ (below a GCSE )to care for children.

I don't have a problem at all with there being provision for those parents who need it.

My problem is with you personally I'm afraid
You have a personal need so therefore your solution is the only sensible way forward ... and anyone who disagrees or tries to explain that things aren't quite so straightforward has to be insulted ...

There is a waiting list for the OOSC, but this is dealt with by a good signposting facility for child-minders through the school office. With our transient population, there is greater than normal turnover.

All of the workers are first aid trained, food safety trained and all are working for NVQ 2 or 3 in child care. (This is part of the CPD offered by the club.)

The holiday club is rarely over-subscribed, with more children at the beginning of the week than the end, which makes staffing difficult (and expensive) to organise. The club is in competition with some attractive holiday sports packages.

The staff are all paid by the club and all equipment and 'treats' are paid for by the club.

The children at the club are now able to use a 'chill' room to watch TV, do their homework and/or play quiet games after their busy days, and there are plans afoot to develop an outside area for big toys.

The school definitely benefits from the club - we have come from potential redundancies a couple of years ago to having nearly every year group completely full. (I know that no. of rising 5s has increased in this time, but we are now attracting a significant number (nearly 40%) of out-of-area children.) This, of course, comes with a few problems....but the more bums on seats, the happier we are!

'My problem is with you personally I'm afraid'

Charming!! And just a little bit odd given that you don't know me at all.

'You have a personal need so therefore your solution is the only sensible way forward'

And I can only repeat that you are not reading my posts very carefully. I am only one of many thousands of working parents who has no adequate childcare during INSET days. There are many parents in a similar position on this thread. One who ends up leaving her children with 'mad Nanna' and others who, like me, end up taking their children to work with them.

You show a rather depressing lack of compassion for such people which is particularly strange given that you are a working parent yourself.

'... and anyone who disagrees or tries to explain that things aren't quite so straightforward has to be insulted ...'

That's not true. We've been over and over the things that you see as not straightforward and they are either completely imaginary problems (like the inability of the school buildings to accommodate a proportion of the children who are enrolled in them) or your bizarre assumption that the provision would be unsafe or else your objections are easily surmountable.

You keep ignoring the posters who are telling you either that they also need or would welcome such a service or like stoat above that they've already got one and instead launch a sustained and rather strange personal attack on me.

Nobody is denying that there would be problems in setting up an out of school care provision but that's no reason not to try.

As I say, if everbody had an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude or threw their hands up in despair every time there was a problem nobody would ever do anything.

Stoats' post shows perfectly that out of school provision can and does work even when it's not always easy.

Why don't you get HT to approach the LA to ask if they would agree to setting up an OOSC on the premises? From what I remember we had to apply to a start-up grant, but that might not exist anymore!

After we'd got the ball rolling it was fairly straight-forward to organise. It's been running continuously for a good 8 years - ds went when it opened in Y5 and he's at uni now!

(That's not to say there haven't been a few problems along the way! )

Childcare is always difficult and expensive. Juggling work with children is a not easy but that's just the way it is. I work as a part time teacher and already give up two evenings and a Sunday to planning and preperation. It's unreasonable to expect that training is also squeezed into eveings and weekends. I also have children and do understand the issues. My childminder took holidays in term time and we just had to use my husbands holiday to cover it. That's life isn't it and teachers, like everyone else need training. I do think we get amazing holidays and that is one of the reasons I stayed with teaching. I know other people work hard too but I agree with several others: if you think it's so easy and we're such lay abouts; come and join us. It's all tea and biscuits...

No stoats post shows that their OOSC is inadequate for the needs of their school or they wouldn't be oversubscribed.

The fact that we don't offer "essential" (which seems to be your opinion) before and after school care or a holiday club and are still oversubscribed suggests our parents are happy with the services we do provide, good education.

stoats we also signpost parents to local qualified childminders which seems to be what our parents prefer.

The OOSC has a waiting list mainly due to child/staff ratio issues. The population of the club is heavily skewed towards the 7s and under, therefore requiring a 1:8 ratio of staff to children. This is an expensive constraint, and the intake has to be finely juggled!

stoatsrevenge Sun 24-Oct-10 17:30:21 The OOSC has a waiting list mainly due to child/staff ratio issues. The population of the club is heavily skewed towards the 7s and under, therefore requiring a 1:8 ratio of staff to children. This is an expensive constraint, and the intake has to be finely juggled!

I fully understand that stoats and my comment was in no way intended as a criticism of the obvious good service you do provide.

fivecandles, if all else fails, try this advice. All this arguing about how you have no option but to take your child to work whilst the rest of us are "fortunate" enough to have lots of options is bullshit.

Next time your DC have INSET and you just can't find anyone to mind them, take the day off. And stop moaning.

'Next time your DC have INSET and you just can't find anyone to mind them, take the day off. And stop moaning.'

There's nothing like a bit of compassion for working parents is there?

Maybe that's what you'd do Eviltwins but fortunately some of us are slightly more committed to their work i.e. educating other people's children.

Interestingly, the only people on here who I consider to have been 'moaning' are you and mrz. What I and others have been doing is suggesting a practical solution to the problem of INSET for working parents. I'm sorry that some people just have little clouds over their heads and and I'm alright Jack attitude.

But then as long as you've had a forum for your negative and uncaring approach on here hopefully you keep it away from RL and real people.

'No stoats post shows that their OOSC is inadequate for the needs of their school or they wouldn't be oversubscribed.'

Do you have the same view of oversubscribed schools or doctors surgeries?

As I've already explained, a more positive and practical person might say of Stoats' OOSC and oversubscribed schools and doctors' surgeries, how wonderful that there is a popular and successful facility which is providing such a necessary service to a lot of people and in this case means that parents can go to work feeling confident that their children are being well looked after. How can we extend and replicate this so that other people benefit from it?

Some people see a glass that is half full and some people see a glass that is half empty.

And then again, some people just want to argue for the sake of it. Well I'll leave you to your rather depressing attitude mrz and Eviltwins. I'm off to enjoy half-term with my gorgeous kids.

One day, when your children or somebody you know has children whose school have INSET and your friends are all busy and you or they have to work perhaps, just perhaps you will think about this thread again and wonder just why you were so negative??????

Fivecandles - I'm very committed to my job (educating other people's children) which is why, when my DCs have INSET days, I make sure I make an effort to sort out childcare. Unlike you. You just moan about how the school should do it for you. Nothing like taking a bit of responsibility for your children, eh?

I was just pointing out that your dramatic "I have no one to look after my children, woe is me" attitude is unnecessary, as your employer has to let you take time off if you can't make childcare arrangements.

And, for your information, whilst I am committed to my job of teaching other people's children, my own children come first, every time. So if I couldn't make appropriate arrangements for them, I would take the day off work. Teaching doesn't offer prizes for martyrdom.

So, to sum up

Holidays are difficult for working parents

Some parents take time off

Others use childcare

Some use facilities provided by or at their children's school

If there were more holiday facilities provided on school sites it would make life easier for working parents

• Some people think the school/LA should organise this childcare

• Others think that the parents should

Interestingly fivecandles you can only see things your way have a lovely day with your children.