Does private automatically mean "better"?

[sandyballs]

Not trying to be controversial just genuinely interested in your views. The reason being, one of the 6 children in my ante-natal group is being privately educated and her mother is constantly going on about her daughter receiving a "better" education than the rest of them. I disagree. Views please but keep it calm

My DD and DS go privit but I ditnt and theyre aint' nuffink rong wif me. Tee hee.

Blu,

Your interpretation does not fit at all with the state/private situation in my local area.

It was all about looking at private school performance by league tables. Two private schools in my area are at the bottom of the league tables, yet they produce more than their fair share of university candidates (Harvard, Yale...). There is zero relationship between these schools and the local comp, and absolutely no competition over the pupils. Never in a month of Sundays would one of their pupils choose the comp.

I certainly don't like the idea that I would chose my principles over my childs' education...

Firstly because I don't think I will have the choice when the time comes and secondly because not all state schools are 'sink' schools filled with thugs, idiots and bullies.

I think harpsichordcarrier made some excellent points. I was bullied at my state school but I know many people who weren't and also people who were at private school.

There seems to be a lot of generalisations going on on both sides.

Sunnyside, how old are your children?

I only ask because I felt like you when my dd1 was in Reception. Seven years later I have realised that things ain't that simple (even though we stayed with the same state primary school, and overall I think it was still the right decision).

None whatsoever Ameriscot! In fact there are lots of teachers who send their kids to the school that the kids go to. The only comments I have had have been along the lines of 'I'd do it for mine if I could'.

Having had the crap beaten out of me in the comp I went to, for wanting to succeed you understand, I have no qualms in sending my kids to a school that suits them, and would never send them to a sink school. As I posted I'd home ed first, and I don't see as that would help anyone.

I've not made any generalisations, in fact the great mass of people have said , 'It all depends'.

I'd send them to a good school if I could but I can't, simple as that.

Both my DD yr 2 and DS yr 6 go to a private school and no they are not necessarily better. Bad behaviour is not tolerated though so classes are able to move on quickly and the teacher doesn't have to put up with any 'crap'.

I want to a comp. DH went to a 'top' private school, he is brainier than me (don't tell him I said that) but apart from that all our values/politics/beliefs/hopes are the exactly the same.

I think it is sad that someone who works in the state system feels that their children would suffer if they were part of it.

I'd like to point out that I am not attacking you for your choice but I just don't feel that because you pay for something it is AUTOMATICALLY better. Yes it is all about individual situations and there are situations where I accept that the private system genuinely has a lot to offer eg. (IMO)pupils with SEN.
I dislike the fact that many parents choose their children's schools based on the rest of the catchment, I feel it should be more to do with ethos, teaching standards and personal experience than on playground one up-manship.
I am NOT saying that you personally don't have reasons for your choice!

I am only offering my opinions not wishing to make personal attacks.

Not all state schools are sink schools, of course they're not weesaidie.

But if you live in an area where a minority of schools get the lion's share of the available funding and cream off the highest grade children (ie either the genuinely brightest or the rich ones who have been coached to within an inch of their lives) then all the other schools in the area are going to be living off the crumbs of what's left over after the minority (in the case of my area, the grammars, in the case of the area I lived in ten years ago, the CTC) have recieved the best funding. And that inevitably means that all the other schools around which haven't recieved as much funding, are just not going to perform as well. The odds are stacked against them before a single pupil walks into the classroom.

Not read middle bit of this - just last few. Must back up what hmb has said. Lots and lots of state school teacher send their children to private schools. Partly it is the wrap around care on offer, partly it may be their experience of working in some state schools. Plus there will be other reasons too. I have never known any teacher get any grief of this at all. I will have no quaklms of sending Dd to private school if that is what we deicde later down the line.

I also said it all depends, I guess it was more skeptics comment about do your children need to mix with thugs? As if that is the type of people who attend state school!

Again, am sure there are thugs in both.

I think I saw some research recently saying that the more expensive a boy's education, the worse he does at university. I'm probably over-simplifying, but I'm fairly sure that was the gist. Girls it would seem are OK. Just thought I'd chuck that into the mix (wicked grin!). Education is on my mind as ds started school yesterday (village primary, fortunately fab).

If your children aren't school age yet, sunnyside, I can assure you that all it takes is a few months of your child being miserable, saying, I hate school, it's stupid, it's boring, I've got a headache, tummyache, feel sick etc. to make the political personal.

I'm not saying this scenario can only happen in a state school, or that the only solution would be to go private. But if it does happen, it's a very swift lesson in how your own child's needs will take precedence over principles every time.

What is the whole grammar school thing anyway? We don't have those in Scotland. (I don't think!)

In our area, if your child is bright enough or coached enough to pass the 11+, there really is no need for private education if what you want is a standard academic focus and good behaviour. The grammar schools perform excellently for that.

But 75% of children do not get into grammar school in Kent. The difference here isn't really between private and public, it's private and grammar, versus secondary modern.

And from what I hear from other parents and from my friend who is a policewoman (and therefore familiar with all the sec mod's in the area), all the secondary modern schools near me are sink schools. There may be some in other parts of Kent which aren't. (And if anyone knows of any, tell me about them please, because I'd consider moving! )

beckybrastraps - never come across that research. Can you remember where it was? Most education research in past has found that girls always out perform boys. Girls in single sex classes/schools do well. Boys in single sex schools do much better than in mixed settings.

And as I keep saying to you sunnyside, you don't know me, my kids or my situation, so I don't think that you know as much about the reasons for my choices as I do. The warp around care is vital for me as I have zero family back up and a dh in the services.

Your choices are your own afair, as are mine. When it comes to my kids education I make the choices that are best for them. And when it comes to the state system i feel no guilt, i well and truly 'gave at the office'.

Hmmm, I think I am quite lucky where I am as a number of the state schools are good. I am probably biased as my school was rated the top state school where I am!

I know that my uncle had a lot of trouble sending my cousin to a 'good' school, managed to get her into one with a 50% GCSE pass rate (not that he was too happy with that) but better than the other one which was closer to 5%!

My uncle is in North London by the way.

frogs, what do you do if you are paying stacks of money for the education and your child is saying I hate school I've got headaches etc.?

Because this scenario happened to my parents (except that they weren't paying stacks of money). My DB had an assisted place at an incredibly posh public school where he was bullied so badly that he suffered years of depression afterwards.

They had to move him back to the local comp, which luckily was an excellent school and welcomed him back with open arms because they were so pleased that a pupil was making a declaration of preference for them over this very posh private school!

It is simply a case of getting the best match between your cild and the school. There will always be stste schools are that better than some private and pivate schools that are better than some state. The schools that my children would go to (which I do not work at btw) are not suitable

Totally agree Frogs but surely teachers must believe in the system they work in. If my darlings do find the local school difficult my first stop will not be a private one. Yes there are some awful schools but I think all should be judged on experience NOT reputation.

DH is more intelligent than me but has no qualifications from the local comp. I have three good A levels and a uni educ. My SIL went to private school, I would say she is easily as intelligent as me yet she has 1 CSE in home ec.!! She is sending her DS privately (they have down sized house) because she 'doesn't want him to mix with the ruffians from town'. We live in a small town so everyone knows everyone. The private school is a 50 mile round trip. I cannot understand her decision. She agrees that her son is leaving all of his friends behind and he doesn't mix well. She knows that she will be unable to afford school trips etc as every penny is accounted for.

Am I alone in thinking that she's mad!? BTW I KNOW IT IS UP TO HER!

But that's what I'm saying, Caligula -- that scenario can arise regardless of what type of schooling you choose for your child. We made a decision not to move dd1 to a pushy private school at 7+ because, although she was bored at the primary school, she was also very anxious, faffy kind of child, and we felt it might be a bit too high octane for her, and not as tolerant of little square pegs as the state sector (which is pretty much what Blu's excellent post said).

My point was that in a real-life scenario, all you can look at is your own child's needs -- politics doesn't really get a look-in.

I'd love to be able to say I came across it in a journal, but in fact I think it was in the Sunday Times. Was surprised at the time, because usually they devote most of their education stuff to how privately educated children are discriminated against when it comes to university entrance. The research was comparing boys with boys, not boys with girls. Assuming the same performance at A level, boys from private schools tend to do worse, and the more expensive the school, the worse they do. The gist of the article was that private schools didn't equip boys for independent study. Of course, the more expensive schools tend to be boarding, so that may be a factor.