Does private automatically mean "better"?

[sandyballs]

Not trying to be controversial just genuinely interested in your views. The reason being, one of the 6 children in my ante-natal group is being privately educated and her mother is constantly going on about her daughter receiving a "better" education than the rest of them. I disagree. Views please but keep it calm

i went to state school from 5 till 11 , i had been in and out of hospital with asthma and had fallen behind in my schooling. I was sent to a private preparatory school for a year and two term and it was the happiest period of my school life. Ten in a class. I surged in confidence and took part in so many activities, sport, music, drama. When I went back into the state school system my expectations of what i could achieve had been so far raised that i did very well in exams and found them rather easy. i notice my state secondary school, 35 to a class, was a lot about class control, so i just self taught basically. i'm sure i couldn't have got into oxford without that period of private schooling - I'd never have believed i could. If i can afford it ds is going private.

oops!

bit late coming to this thread but these are my observations. Sorry it's a bit long:

it is kind of trite to say but it all depends on what you value most out of education/life and what kind of child you have.

If you value academic success above all then in the vast majority of cases your child is likely to get better exam results at a private school as opposed to a state school. (unless you're "lucky" enough to get into a grammar school)

If your child is bright then (IME) they will do fine pretty much anywhere as long as they are happy, and you may end up paying a pretty substantial premium for marginally improved exam results. If your child is not that academically bright then tbh a competitive private school might be hell on earth.

If your child is average academically then you are likely to get the most improvement in grades for your money.

(BTW you should bear in mind that employers/universities will likely take into account the school when they assess just how smart your child is from their exam grades so it may all be canceleed out..)

In terms of confidence - again a confident child will probably do all right anywhere, whereas a shy or diffident child may be overwhelmed by a rufty tufty state school. BUT bullying can happen anywhere and there is just as much pressure to fit in at private schools. There is obviously a wider social mix at state schools and (IMO) better preparation for the real world...

Also important I think is your attitude to competitiveness. If you think competitiveness is a Good Thing and splendid preparation for life then IME private schools are more academically competitive but also more socially competitive. I know some children whose parents scraped together the money to send them to private school who had the most miserable time imaginable because their clothes/holidays/cars/houses were Not Up To Scratch.

No one seems to have mentioned either that private schools are almost always single sex. You might think this is a good thing but (IMO and IME) it is a bizarre and unnatural idea to separate out the sexes and doesn't lead to healthy relationships and attitudes.

School is just one part of the mix and what happens at home is every bit as important. For me the most important thing would be that your child is enjoying school and isn't wanting to leg it out of the school gate at the first opportunity.

i disagree with you harpsichordcarrier about academic success being the be all and end all at private schools. When i went to prep schoold for that period what really made the difference was the ability to take part in high standard drama, music, and sports, not just academia. There were NONE of those options at any of the state schools i attended - drama and music in particular are seen there as unnecessary luxuries instead of essential to developing confident, rounded human beings.

I think most private schools these days are mixed? All the local ones are anyway.

What would you parents who send your children to private school do if the money ran out. I know someone in this very situation. Her husband's business has collapsed and suddenly things are looking very difficult.

Her 2 children have been at private school (one is now entering secondary)and even when facing financial ruin they are still sending their children to private school. She is doing this with help from the grandparents and increasing their debts.
She does not think her children would survive in the rough and tumble of state school after the cosy nature of the private school they have been attending. Incidentally she doesn't much rate the private primary school she has been using and paid for additional tuition for children on top.

Blimey! Didn't have time to come back to this yesterday - thanks all for your responses. Haven't read them all yet but will do later now I'm at work and not at home .

Enid - this girl is 4, she has already spent a year at private school and the rest of the ante-natal group are starting state primaries over the course of the next two weeks (including my twin DDs ). I have to say, although it is probably completely irrelevant, she is the most challenging and badly behaved of the group, consistently.

Great post harpiscordcarrier,
The most important thing IMO is whether you and your child are in tune with the school. This is regardless of the pay/not pay issue. I was mostly happy at my all girls private school, which was a relatively inexpensive private school with a highly non-competitive ethos (very little setting, no test results announced - and you got in trouble for discussing your grades with your mates) which was all about maximising your potential as a girl. I think that it was a good environment, although agree about the boy/girl thing. I then went to an all boy's public boarding school with girls in the sixth form. Completely different ethos, everything setted (you were "A", "B" etc for all classes - assumption being if you were good at one thing you would be good at everything, which seems a bit stupid to me). The boys were a deep disappointment to me, as they could be very silly, but I had fun. The competitive thing didn't really bother me, as I was 16 by that point, and just felt morally superior. Dh went to a highly competitive public school, with lots of rules, which his parents couldn't be bothered with and he resented. I am sure he did better academically, but it hasn't helped his social skills much.

The snobbish thing comes in all shapes and sizes, private/private, state/state as well as private/state. It's a matter of whether you feel, and most important tell everyone that your choice is superior. Obviously not everyone can get their child into the best school (and definitions will vary from one family to another) and it's really not very good manners to brag about it.

As harpiscordcarrier says what matters most is that your child wants to be there. I have known drop outs from both state and private/public schools, and at the end of the day these all represent a failure for the child.

My parents did run out of money Eaney. I finished my O levels and then they gave me the choice of staying or going to state school for 6ht form. I knew their situatiuon- I chose state.

There's always that sort of thing to worry about- but the private school we are sending ds2 to is £3600 a year. I reckon I can earn that in the extra time I'll have during school terms.

We're hoping that ds2 wil be able to go to state school for secondary (there is a good grammer school in the city, and its not ludicrous to get into).

sorry ruty I don't think we disagree, I think maybe I didn't explain myself properly.
I wsa saying that if academic success is the most important thing for you as a parent then (generally) you will get better results at a private school.

Sandyballs - if she is such a dreadful child/poor advert of private education - why are you so bothered about the 'difference' with private education?

Sounds like a bit of sour grapes to me...................

Of our local private schools (say in 10 mile radius) there is much greater choice for single-sex girls than boys only. As far as I can recall at the mo, all the boys are very academically selective (Derby Grammar, L'boro Grammar, Nottingham High); two are co-ed - Trent College and Repton - and the other six I can think of are all girls' schools, three of which are fairly highly selective, I think.

I guess I'll know a bit more about it over the next couple of years when everyone will be looking around at senior school choices, private and state. Unfortunately, with some notable exceptions, Nottingham's state schools don't seem to perform particularly well. The notable exceptions require the purchase of a house in an area which is NOT actually a catchment area IYSWIM (whatever the agents might say) and possibly a waiting list. My DB and SIL moved into one of these areas and their son had to wait 15 months for a place at school.

Totally agree that it depends on the child and the school. Our local state primary schools are so good, that I find it hard to understand anyone sending their child to the private ones. Another thing to be aware of is that teachers in private schools do not have to be qualified!!! At the local posh prep school, there is actually only ONE properly qualified teacher on the staff!!
If a child has special needs then the smaller class sizes in a private school may be desirable, but equally some private schools are less helpful for such children and tend to just move them up or down a year to cope with different abilities!!!
I certainly think that Sandyball's 'friend' is totally insensitive in her comments and probably just covering up some deep-seated insecurity about her own choice!

eaney i would say in my experience private school prepares you better for state school - i was much more confident and had far higher expectations of myself when i went back into the state school system.
HPChordCarrier - I just think its a shame that most State schools in know of don't have high standard choirs or drama - i actually think those things are crucial to a child's education, but i guess that is an individual thing.

goldenoldie - she isn't a dreadful child, just more challenging than the rest. Re-reading my post I can see what you mean by sour-grapes . That isn't the case though.

The private schools where we live are all single sex, one C of E boys school (selective);one RC girls school (non-selective) and DD's school C of E (selective).

Regarding the manners of the lady that boasts about her daughters school Yuck..when people ask me where DD goes I'm a bit embarressed because I don't want then to think it's cause I think DD is too good to go to school with their kid's! Thats not the reason at all.

FWIW I think that DD is much more comfortable in an all girs environment. I vividly remember how the boys seemed to get lions share of the attention when I was at school.

Also the thing about private teachers being 'not qualified' is a bit deceptive. I should think that most are, they just don't necessarily have Qualified Teacher Status which IMO isn't the same thing at all. For a teaching college to be allowed to issue this qualification they have to jump though quite a lot of government 'hoops'. My old university Buckingham have only fairly recently decided to do the QTS thing. Whether you think this is important or not is up to you. Personally I don't.

Sorry it's a bit long!

my experience of state schools was the loud naughty ones got attention and if you were quiet/hard working you were ignored.

Ditto Ruty

Just didn't want that for DD as she's a quite shy well behaved girl. Not that you can even tell that she used to shy after a year at her school, her pre-scool teacher came to be a teaching assistant in her class and couldn't believe the change in her.

Sorry should have said quiet not quite

ruty, you're right of course. It is a shame about the lack of out of school activities in some state schools, but do you know why I think it is? Because often the teachers are so over-worked underpaid and totally knackered that they haven't got the time or energy to run them and also bcause all the parents who would pay or help or be interested in sending their children have sent their children to private schools slightly provocative and generalising but I think YSWIM...

actually I know loads of very dedicated teachers in the state sector giving up their time and sanity in this way. Good for them, they need all our support.

BTW the very best thing about my school was that I was ignored almost all the time. Worked for me

i'm all for more investment in the state sector. But it seems by its very nature a vacuum that sucks in money without making the radical changes it needs to. Sorry if that is provocative too! I am only talking about my experiences, not the root causes, and because of my experiences i want my son to have the best education he can - if i can afford it. Sorry if that is selfish, but my socialist parents believed passionately in the state school system, they only sent me to a private school temporarily because i had been so ill and they could see, thankfully, that my potential was going to be scrapped if i stayed where i was. I don't want to sacrifice my child's education for my ideals. Sorry!

depends where you are, I did very well thank you with state comps, albeit in affluent Lincolnshire these are now grant maintained, my best mate at school came out of prviate education and did better once he was in with us common compos.

I'd love to know views on local schools but I suspect one of them woul sue if someone said St Poppy's High was rubbish. (but any comments on Stokcport/Sth McR Primary schools welcomed).

Wife and I remain of the view that DS should go to a state school, but as you say Ruty you do what's best for you kids if you can afford a "better" school good luck to you.

BTW anyone know how to interpret those Ofsted reports read one last night said teaching good in all areas excellent in others then the school seemed to score below average.

You know, it doesn't really matter how private and comprehensives fare in different parts of the country.

For everyone here, the relevent issue is the comparison of the various schools in the area that your children could reasonably commute to.

In our case, the LEA could not offer a reasonable school place for DS1 and we had the ability (thanks to the rise in the housing market) to find a place in a nearby prep school. It was the best move we ever made.

I don't think they do get a btter education in all cases. I went to one of the top state schools in our country and DD and DS are going to state primary schools that are outperforming the nearby private school.

Where private schools do better (again, though, only in some cases) is with things like extra curricular activities, class sizes and discipline.

That said, I feel very uneasy about the whole idea of private automatically equalling better. I'd like to see more scholarships being offered if they want to keep their charitable status, and I hate the snob value attached to them. Real life is about mixing with a wide range of people from different backgrounds, and I think kids learn a lot from these experiences.

I went to an inner-city comprehensive school, it was, and still is the largest school in britain (480 pupils in each year). Dp went to a private school, surrounded by shropshire countryside, and had 16 pupils in his class.

Im far more intelligent than he is (ahem), he is not stupid at all but knows very little about history, his grammer is questionable and his GCSE results are equivalent to mine. But he does play cricket very well.

Even his father said that his schooling was an absolute waste of money- not because he has done so bad in life- he hasn't he has worked his way up in the company that he works for and has gained a good reputation within his business and is now a manager. His father feels it was a waste because his schooling didnt get him where he is now, his own hard work did and he started his job at the same level as any other joe bloggs off the street.

People do learn differently and maybe DP didnt use his private education to its full advantage, now as a parent, i'd be seriously p**sed off if an education that cost me thousands of pounds a year resulted in my sons leaving school with the same results my dp left with, id expect so much more for the money.

I feel i recieved an excellent education, and truly wished i had tried harder, my GCSE results were certainly no indication of the level of education i recieved, they were the result of me thinking it was funny to be a class clown.