Is it fair to expect DH to work hard to pay for private education

[totalflotter]

I've been lurking around on this site since my first DD was born late last year and have found it very helpful.

As an Aussie married to an Englishman, living in SW London, the more I read the more I am worried about sending our children to state schools. I would like to consider private schools but my DH is unhappy about the cost. We plan to have 3 children and for me to give up work as a Lawyer to help look after them since his income far exceeds mine.

DH's view is that to educate 3 children privately and help with Uni costs to age 22, requires him to earn an extra £2.5m gross! DH wants to retire by his mid 40s (another 7 years) and says he can't guarantee making the extra money. He's worried about impairing our standard of living for what he considers the "dubious" benefits of a private education.

DH says that most people who pay for private education can't really afford it and will regret it in later life with a lower standard of living.

Is private education now only available to the super-rich? I am being unfair expecting him to delay his retirement to pay for these things? Sorry for the long post ...

It is completely unreasonable to expect your dh to fund three children though private school. It is incredibly expensive.

A private school at secondary can cost £9,000- 15,000 a year in fees alone then there is the additional cost of uniforms and equipment and trips for pivate schools (always higher then in the state sector). You probably need to allow about £14,000 to £20,000 per child a year for all the costs.

This is out of taxed income so you need to earn around another £60,000 a year for 3 children which after tax would be around £400k over 7 years (about £700,000 before tax)

That is only for 7 years of secondary school

If you want privare primary school as well then they are less expensive but not that much less so you need to add another 80% onto that so around 1.3 million gross.

Then add the university dunding for them and you can se that the 2.5m gross is not that far off what you would pay

If private education is that important to you you may have to keep working and also have fewer than 3 children.

Go and look at State schools. My DH earns a good wage (in the city) and we couldn't afford Private schools. We live where there are good state schools.

Do not panic by what the papers say (madness), and there is some herd mentality among some people that private must be best. Research seems to show that having parents who are concerned in their kids education is best (so educated parents, who are very involved but send their kids to sink schools, still tend to have kids who go to top universities).

Retiring at 45 seems like madness. The only person I know who did that, founded a company and then sold it at a vast profit. Its not normal.

If you really do want private school, then you will have to work.

Move out of London and keep your job, if you're that bothered.

Get a nanny and keep working yourself.

You need to look at the particular schools you are considering - private and state. You cannot genearalise about them - both sectors vary massively.

Like someone has said above, the most important thing with education is that the parents are involved and interested in the child's education. That said, if you are in an area where the school is extremely bad, no amount of involvement/encouragement will make up for it.

Educating 3 children privately is a massive financial undertaking.

So I wanted my DD to not do SATS, to do iGCSEs and international Bacc and to be in an all girls schools (this is the most important one). In my area this means private school to get a single sex education. So I had only one child, went back to work, bought my own business and now earn more than DH so I could pay the school fees.
On the retiring front DHs parents retired a 55 and it has made them so old and stuck in their ways. My parents carried on working till now dad retiring at 68 this year and they have stayed very young by being in the work place.

Well for a start register them at your local prep schools. That bit is easy.

This is a very odd post. I know we all plan ahead a bit but you have already decided to have three children, give up work, educate your children privately and have your dh retire mid-40s! You have no idea if any of this is realistic! You might never have any children, you might have the three you want and find that you are climbing the walls staying home with them so decide to go back to work, your dh may lose his job and you may end up being the breadwinner, he may get to his mid-40s and simply not be able to afford to retire or may decide that actually the prospect of 50+ years of retirement is not appealing - there are so many unknowns.

Yes, I think it is unreasonable for you to decide that your children must be privately educated when you admit that you know nothing about the system and presumably haven't visited any schools yet (or maybe you have, if life is so perfectly planned out). Make an informed decision on state vs private for your circumstances at the time and if private genuinely works best for you, be prepared to keep working to pay for it unless your dh is earning mega-amounts of money.

There are loads of very good state schools in London!
There are also bad schools in London
As elsewhere
Many ignorant suppositions are made about many state schools.

Retiring at 45 seems like a luxury to me, and I might question that as a way to prioritise any aspect of being a parent, not just the question of school provision. For him to retire, and you to give up your career, if that is possible, seems idyllic!

I would wait a bit, explore all your options (you have time!) talk to some parents who are highly educated (purely as a 'control' cohort against the 'highly educated' private school parents you have talked to) and who are happy that their child is receiveing a good education in the state system, go to some open days at expensive preps, and see what you thnk!

I am a reasonably highly educated (B.A Hons) S London parent with a happy child progressing v well in a state primary in a notorious area of s London, and planning to send him to a nearby state secondary that does very well by most of it's students. My child also gets lots of general educational eye-opening opportunities out of school (not tutoring or any formal hot housing, i mean cultural visits and lots of talk and discussion, informed help with homework topics etc) whgich i am sure you would provide too.

Moving out of london would seem a very good idea unless you have a social consciense. As a full-blown country dweller of several generations it seems unfair that rich city dwellers push up house prices around all half decent primary schools. Not to mention the fact that most small village primary schools are now full to bursting point!

No, ignore the move to the country advice, seriously its all a bit pedestrian out here. What you really need to consider is the diametrically opposed ideas you have.

Why did you train to be a lawyer? Did you require a good education. As will your children, perhaps more so in such a competitive world. You and your husband value success, wealth and a comfortable life, this is what you should aspire to for your children. People who wish to put themselves first are ideally suited to adopting puppies but bringing up children usually requires some sacrafices.

TBH I think OP you are looking too far into the future, and listening to the wrong people.

Your 'well-educated' colleagues are probably just parroting what they THINK they should be saying.

If you want to send three kids to private school that costs a lot of money - to expect your DP to take that on when he has absolutely no interest in doing so is really unfair. He will be worried about what he will have to do and sacrifice to make so much money.

I live in London too and am pregnant, so understand the fear. But there are other options. There are grammars (if you agree with them) and the option of private tuition. DP and I plan to tutor our kid at home ourselves, as well as sending them to a state school.

OP how about state schools for primary, then you go back to work FT and the children go to private schools for secondary? That's the plan we have (although will likely go back to Australia when DCs are old enough for secondary).

Presumably there are some excellent state secondary schools around, but it sounds to me (admittedly from the grapevine only) that they are harder to find than excellent state primary schools. Where we are for example, there are 2 "outstanding" state primary schools and a dire state secondary school.

You could always research excellent state secondary schools if you can't stretch to private, then start thinking about how to make sure you get in.

there are good state schools

you could go back to work

you could have 2 children instead of 3

your dh could postpone his retirement til he's oooooh, 50

There are plenty of good state primary schools in SW London, look at them, you'll be amazed

As everyone says by secondary when it is a bit more dubious then send them private at secondary. By which time you could be back at work. And if it means that much to you, then only have 2 children.

I'm actually quite jealous that he is able to retire so young! My DH is set to work til he's 66 just as the government wants if he's going to have a "comfortable" retirement.
I think private education is a whole new world for children, I have no idea if it really is better than state school, I suppose it depends on the school/area.
The only way you'll make up your mind is by doing your homework and researching the schools (state & private), that you wish to send your child to. That's how I choose my DD's school.
But if it really is going to cause such a financial burden on you/DH then you may have to consider working yourself, I don't think you should leave it all to your DH, that seems unfair on him.
Plus we cant always get what we want so maybe 3 children is just too many to privately educate, you may have to just stick with the one or two.

Maybe you married the wrong man if you want to be a SAHM to three privately-educated children in London and he wants to stop working in his mid-forties.

Divorce and start again, perhaps, checking for compatible lifestyle ambitions beforehand?

pmsl at Bonsoir.

Here's the thing about state education in the UK. It's patchy. Some schools are great, some are shite. And the idea that parents get much of a choice is a pipedream.

Here'a another thing. The small percentage of folk independently educated are ridiculously over represented at the best unis and later in the best paid professions.

Here on MN, we can all give our anecdotal stories ( I too am a state schooled kid who succeeded both academically and financially)but the sad facts are the sad facts. Social mobility is on it's arse.

Now this doesn't mean that your kids won't do fabulopusly well in state education. And it doesn't mean that you should try to force your DH's hand in this.
But it does go some way t explain why many folk here in the UK pay.
Not because we're all 'afraid' of state education. Or we don't know anything about it. But because them's the numbers.

I am amazed that people would consider denying their child a sibling so that he/she can be privately educated! Talk about screwed priorities!

You both want to give up work but you want to educate your children privately on no income, is that it?

" Whilst private school attendance has remained largely flat in the UK at around 6-7% of children, it has risen sharply in Australia with about a third of children currently attending a school outside the government sector." From www.ifs.org.uk/publications/5080

So actually far more children are privately educated in Australia, in fact far more than in the UK.

Seeker: does a child have the right to a sibling? Is there some obligation to have 3 children (and I have 3).

If you are in SW London, there are excellent state schools.

Wow ... got a lot more responses that I thought. Thanks.

With regard to me carrying on working, I would be happy to do so since I'm not a natural SAHM. However, whilst I may be a lawyer, my net salary once childcare costs are taken out will be pretty marginal. I wish I was paid as much as some people here think but not all company lawyers are paid like those in private practice. To be frank my career hasn't really been going anywhere for a few years and I'm skeptical that I can progress further at my current company and I'm not sure I could leave and get a better job elsewhere.

DH and I are definately looking at moving out into Kent/Surrey commuter towns. Neither of us utilize what London has to offer which is a shame but true and both of us would be willing to commute. Problem is we know even less about these areas than SW London.

With regard to my DH, I definately don't want to get rid of him! He's wonderful, just infuriating some of the time ... I think he views me the same way!

I don't actually believe my DH would ever actually retire from his current job. He'd be bored out of his mind in less than 3 months. But this this retirement idea is getting in the way of us even researching private vs state education. Also DH shows a real lack of self-confidence about his ability to support us. He seems to assume the worst case scenario financially. He wouldn't consider buying a house until he had the money to buy cash.

At the same time I feel bad since he already has provided more than I ever could. I wish I could generate the income instead but I don't have his ability/opportunity.

He is lazy, uncaring and feckless. Dump him

He is using retirement as an excuse not to think about your life together or of children....I really think your problem is him at the moment.

If everyone who was bored at work gave up and retired about 60% of the workforce would disappear, and we'd all find ourselves in Poundland.