Affordable Private Education

[WhatWillSantaBring]

I don't want to get into a debate on the merits of state v private education, but does anyone have any idea on how on earth a normal, middle-class, professional couple can afford to educate their children privately?

Me and DH both work in well paid jobs as professionals. If you factor in the cost of servicing a mortgage and other essential living costs (but not including holidays, clothes and socialising) we probably have disposable income each year of about £20k (though this figure is based on our lives pre-children).

Now, maths is not my strong point, but are there any ways that we could educate three children privately for that less than that amount (as we do have to clothe them and ourselves!)? Remember, its not just the basic fees, its the extras that are part and parcel of private education - music lessons, uniforms, school trips etc.

I can't believe that private education has become soley the preserve of the super-wealthy but I struggle to see how else it can be afforded.

PS we have no rich grandparents that we can call on!

I am sure some grammar schools are great, just as some state comps are great and some independents. But I would not want my dd going to the one I taught in or the local ones here.

Back to OP!

Some people are planners by nature. For us having children meant a series of related decisions:

1. Stay where we were (Central London) with DH walking to work, saving lots of fares, but with difficult school choices
2. Move a bit further out with better schools, but pay fares and a lot more mortgage
3. Move much further out, pay a lot more in fares, but DH was not going to see much of the children when they were little.

Others must have being doing the same thinking as 7 out of 10 in my ante-natal class left the area before their children reached Primary.

Moving down the decision tree choices were:

1. Discover religion. Many did.
2. Go Private, which was a struggle with two, but would have been near impossible with three. As it happened we were hit by the very rapid rise in private school fees over the past decade, which saw many people on similar incomes revising their original decision and moving out of the area. (One was a family whose decision was made when their "third" proved to be twins.)
3. Trying the troubled local state sector.

None of the decisions are easy despite what people on the Forum may say. The local school dilemma is that though leadership and teaching may be great, schools can be challenged by a number of students with statements, in care, without English, with illiterate parents (which apparently impacts on the chances of their children learning to read) or whose parents are third generation underemployed. The view seemed to be that if there was a table of children in the class who could work at a reasonable pace and not too much disruption elsewhere, things were alright. If not, it was very difficult. Secondary, without the oversight afforded in Primary, is more difficult, especially for any child who might stand out as "different". Often the only difference between richer and poor is that the former can afford what the latter would love to have.

Where we had the advantage over OP was that house prices were much more affordable than now, so we benefit from quite a low mortgage, and we have 2 children. Also the decision to go private means I work full time, DH has made career choices based on pay, and we started saving early.

Decisions entirely depend on where you live. If starting now I don't know if the Private option would be feasible. With the benefit of experience one possible approach might be to use local infant schools, but then transfer to one of the sought after next borough church schools (they start losing their own pupils to local Preps at this point) topping up with tutoring as necessary.

If you dont want to do the religion thing, or if you are not a Christian, buy the Good Schools Guide and mug up on entry criteria quite early (before Year 4). If your child is clever try Grammars of some of the partially selectives like Lady Margaret, but be aware that this will mean two years of tedious VR and non VR practice and a place at, say, Tiffin, is still far from guaranteed. If you are looking at a school with a music specialism consider having your child learn an instrument, ditto sport, language etc. Religion is a toughie at Secondary as the commitment levels required can be high. (There is a big evangelical movement locally with individual members participating extensively in church activities. So flabby CofE is not necessarily enough.)

Or rent temporarily in the right catchment. Ideally somewhere with a good sibling policy.

Local kids do some astoundingly long daily commutes.

Paying for secondary therefore buys freedom and choice, though 11+ is still fraught, as despite the fees schools are still very over-subscribed. There is no real problem transferring a girl at 11+ from state to private. Lots do, though most will have had some private preparation for entrance exams.

Boys can be more tricky as some of the more academic schools are looking at 10+ or even 7/8+ entry from the state sector.

Bursaries are difficult if you earn what is an above average income, though some London schools are very aware of this. Indeed a group of them ran a campaign in the Evening Standard a couple of years back encouraging bursary applicants. It appears to be that if they really want a child who they would not otherwise get, a bursary might be negotiable.

Fees vary from school to school, eg GDST offer fewer facilities but often good academics, and people do shop around. There are a few no-frills schools out there as well, where some parents will be spending a very large part of a low income to avoid the state system.

It is a mess. I cant think of anyone who got through to Secondary with their moral high-ground intact.

Not forgetting the choice available to the vast majority of people in this country - and probably the majority of people on mumsnet (despite appearances to the contrary). IE - none.

For the vast majority of the population, paying saving, moving or praying are just not possible. Unfortunately, they are all options available to the movers and shakers of the world. So once again advantage builds on advantage, and disadvantage piles on disadvantage. And on and on it goes........

I was going to say the same, maybe I live in some kind of parallel universe but with the excpetion of my immediate area everyone I know just sends their kids to the local school and try to make the best of it. A few may ship them into the grammar over the border but most don't exercise any choice.

I am not execising any choice depsite having a dd clever enough for a grammar, I rent so I could move catchment, I have God and a income that could pay fees. I suspect schools would be better and we would all be happier and financially better of if we just used local schools.

Needmoresleep - I think that about covers it . Yours is a very 'Central London' perspective, I think. But most of London has the (super) selective, comprehensive and faith state options plus private schools (though many of these are very selective, especially for boys).

Our local comprehensives are reasonably good and very over-subscribed. Dc's often sit for private schools as a 'back up' to the state options.

IMO - if everyone just went to the nearest local school, in my area - we'd end up with tiny ultra middle-class catchment areas! But, yes, those parents would be happier and financially better off.

I dont disagree that earning more does give you move choice. (It also gives you the alternative of a better car, holiday etc.)

The really desperate in all of this are those who have no choice, just a secondary which will limit their children's life chances. Some time ago I mentored a student there and was shocked at the very limited GCSE options there were for a bright girl, and also the poor local opportunities for A levels. She stopped being able to be a Doctor the day she entered the school.

There can be a simplicity and smugness about Mumsnet which labels everything rich or poor, state or private, grammar or bog-standard. The most heart-broken can be those who have moved half way across the world to improve their children's life chances only to find that they have failed. Think Damiola Taylor. Think of those Nigerian and West Indian families sending their children to stay with relatives so that they can access better schools. The lovely Colombian mum who somehow and after three years of trying got her daughter into a well thought of Primary half way across London (presumably in an area where the flight from the London state sector starts in Year 3) because she was so depressed about the lack of aspiration and support shown by other parents in the local school, but is now absolutely panicked about secondary options.

There is such a shortage of school places locally (I think the borough needs to build about 17 Primary and 3 secondary schools if it were to be able to meet demand) that the last thing anyone is doing is to encourage those into the system that can go elsewhere.

Those who occasionally leave their comfortable country residencies to visit London may notice that a huge proportion of visible workers were probably educated outside Britain. The Polish waitress, the Bangladeshi petrol station attendant, the Nigerian traffic warden. The concern is that their contemporaries who have been through parts of the London school system are unemployed or relying on benefits, largely because the "education" they have received means they are less prepared for employment.

The point is not about ensuring your child has better opportunities than others, but to ensure that your child has the opportunities to participate both socially and economically. Many London parents, if they lived elsewhere, would use the state sector, or now spend huge amounts of time and money cramming their children to prepare for selective state schools. Equally London refugees happily admit that had they stayed in London they would have felt they had no option but to pay.

My earlier post was in support of the OPs forward planning and to suggest some options.

Perhaps I should add that DC love London and are very happy to be raised here. It is a struggle for us and them, but there is also huge opportunity educationally, culturally and through knowing other children from all over the world and a wide range of backgrounds.

Seeker the reason I am moving my DD2 out of the grammar to independent for 6th form is to move her away from the looks conscience, diet crazy exam treadmill that is her girls grammar school. I think a coed school would give her a better balanced outlook. It worked for DD1.

Needmoresleep- couple of great posts there.

But that's a critique of single sex schools - which I agree with, not a critique of grammar schools.

There are very few "normal" parents at our DD's school, they are families with 2 Doctors working full time and usually at consultant level with 1 or 2 children.
A handful are people who have had and sold business'
We know we are in the system for a limited time, primary and that ours are getting a little boost before they fly through the 11+ and go to the local grammar's or the brilliant comp, staying on is just not an option as just 2 years has completely wiped out our savings and had us living like church mice.

My DCs are privately educated but at a small, very normal, non-posh local independent school, not a fancy-pants public school, no common entrance. The fees rise as they get older, and at secondary level they are approximately £8-9k at the most expensive stage. There are not masses of extras to pay for, though trips are very expenive as obviously they are not subsidised by the state. So it is possible to do it on £20k a year - just.

In contrast I know someone who has five children who have all gone to the most expensive day schools in the area, then to a weekly boarding school at 9, and then to a well-known public school to board at 13 - at about £23k a year - EACH!

Do you live in London, or a very expensive city? If P.Ed is very important to you perhaps you could move to a cheaper provincial area and access a cheaper smaller school?

We decided to move from London to a nice little commuter village where all the local schools (state) have great results. We bought a house here and boys very happy at the local primary, it is a good school (they have music lessons too)and we have money for a tutor if necessary.

There are some fab state schools out there!

Well of course, that's the other point. If you live somewhere erm, 'gritty' and urban, and the local schools are scary hellholes, you could just move somewhere nice and quiet with fewer ishoos, and find a lovely non-scary school!

I think it's important to mention the problems faced by those out 'in the sticks'. It is not as straight forward as it may look on paper!

We moved out of London expecting to find nice village schools and a community feel. What we actually got was an 'outstanding' secondary school that everyone was desperate to get into. This turned our village primary into a school with 75% commuting in from local towns, very few village children, classes of 35 and no community feel as no parents were available to help out in school. This primary BTW is Ofsted outstanding too!

Having moved to a prep in a local big village, our DD now benefits from all the things we were expecting her to get at the local primary. Just to say, the 'you wouldn't know what the real state system is like, you have it easy in the sticks' brigade are absolutely wrong! Our problems are different, but I'm afraid just as bad!!!

Seeker. True, however the grammas my way are single sex.

Grammars not grammas

We live in South Birmingham/Solihull and I feel that the private schools in this area are not as good as the state schools. Both my DCs attend a primary that is excellent and my DS is going to secondary this year and the comp that he will be attending is very good too. He is having some home tutoring for numeracy just to build confidence and I have worked really hard with both to help with their learning to date. We are both professionals and could just about afford private with sacrifice but I do not see any added value in the schools I have looked at. One had a library that was a cupboard!

The same with the grammer schools which are very good academically but do not seem to give a well-rounded education. In fact all the people in my DSs tutor group are being tutored for grammer and I have refused. The grammer school is full of kids who have been coached to pass the 11+ or kids who went to private primary. They are not as clever as soon of the kids who go to state school.

IMO a good state school with back up in subjects through parental help or tutoring is just as good and gives the kids better choices in later years. Not all kids want to be doctors and lawyers! My DS wants to run his own business and therefore needs to mix with kids from all different backgrounds.

Tom Hodgkinson in the Idle Parent advocates families pulling together to share tutors in home education and the cost is amazingly cheaper than for private schools. It is quite an interesting concept and may be worth looking at if you live in an area where state schools are really poor. Just make sure you check them out first.

Yes that's a trap many fall into, moving into an area because of the outstandingly good schools only to find that their kids aren't eligible to get in anyway! We have that in Colchester - whenever the property sections of the heavyweight Sunday papers do a little piece on what it's like to live here they always mention that we have two of the most outstanding state schools in the country. Well, yes, we do, but that's because they only let the top 2% of academically able (and hot-housed to pass the test ) go there, so they would be good, wouldn't they?

You need to look realistically at the schools your DCs are likely to get into. Many of the very good provincial schools suffer from what pugs said, and so they have extremely strict admissions criteria. Alwas find out exactly where the catchment extend first before you buy.

fsmail- I thought Solihull School was supposed to be a good one?

St Martins is excellent as is Solihull school, in all honesty we moved from stratford upon avon because it was clear even though Shottery girls grammar was almost at the end of our road my daughters wouldn't stand a chance of getting a place compared to the privately educated children from all over solihull and south birmingham, kids traveling over an hour on the train aged 11 are the norm.

CaptainNancy, Solihull School is supposed to be very good although very expensive but then so is Arden, a local state school so I just could not justify the extra cost. St Martins is all girls so no good for us.

Mamamtomany Such a shame and the trouble is their journeys will be long and then if they were private before and coached through the exam, they may need to work hard to keep up. Lots of extra work in the evenings. Is it really worth putting kids through all that or is that just me. I have heard of children at age 11/12 working till 10 at night to keep up and parents taking GCSEs themselves so they can coach their children, who may then decide that they would rather travel round the world and become a life guard. (My DSs current career choice.)

I'm not sure becoming a life guard is an option for those children. I know of one kid who aged three was made to watch the video at think tank of a hip replacement to get her used to seeing open bodies for when she is a surgeon