Teen Eating Disorders Thread 7

[Lottsbiffandsmudge]

We have managed to fill the previous Thread here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/eating_disorders/4471980-Teen-Eating-Disorders-Thread-6?page=40

So I thought I would start a new one.

Everyone supporting a young person with and ED is welcome here for advice (non professional but lived experience) and support.

Hoping everyone can find us...

Hi @basilbrush - sorry to hear about DD's pain. It is one of ED's many cruelties that often in early wr/recovery, weight gain and/or bloating focuses on their stomaches.

There are a couple of articles from Tabitha Farrar I'll link to. - firstly how weigh redistributes to protect organs during early recovery
tabithafarrar.com/2012/04/coped-fat-tummy-recovery/

Secondly, this from her about bloating and its causes
tabithafarrar.com/2017/06/anorexia-recovery-stomach-problems/

A couple of questions for you though - could the pain be double sourced - from the bloating and perhaps extreme hunger pangs. Our experience of hunger pains in recovery was that they are v extreme and v scary.

Second question (and sorry its a personal one!) how are her bowel habits? The reason I ask is my DD has a very messed up bowel/stomach following anorexia. Basically the anorexia slowed her system to pretty much a stand still. She's under consultant care for it - she had a long time of taking mega doses of laxatives, then prescribed irrigation and now has some been prescribed some prebiotis which are work on the theory that Tabitha mentions her the second article that the ED can lead to a cull on pretty much all of the good gut bacteria leaving only the cockroaches of the gut bacteria world which can survive on nothing (and come through the apocalypse). The hope is the prebiotics will encourage the re-growth of good bacteria.

If you think there are any chances some of the bloating etc could be down to more fundamental changes in her gastric system, I'd start engaging medical professionals asap. Hopefully (and I say that advisedly!)its more of the wr/early recovery side effects..

Have any of your DDs spoken about hunger? DD said to me this evening she's always hungry 😞 but obviously won't eat anything to help

It's giving her stomach pains

Cross posted with myrtle on hunger pangs!

I wouldn't say DD is in recovery given she's on a mostly liquid diet, but is the hunger a good thing?

Hi @LittlePickleHead - hunger pains can be horrific and often sufferers talk about being a bottomless pit when they start to eat towards recovery.

I posted up thread about your DD speaking about future events like Christmas and they could be a sign that DD is wanting explore recovery. My DD watched lots of you-tubers in recovery before she decided to recover - it was like a trial run and I wonder if your DD is doing that?

Perhaps its an opportunity to try to get her to connect the two pieces of the jigsaw?

Good luck!

Little** I think admitting and recognising hunger is positive, I would also start pushing a lot more food as it sounds like your dds 'voice' ie 'I'm hungry' is getting louder. With FBT you need to make and put the food in front of her 6 times a day, 3 meals and 3 snacks. I appreciate it's early days still but the sooner you get this routine established the better.

My dd will admit to being hungry sometimes but only normally just before dinner. We're still not at the stage where she'll get more food over and above what I've given her.

Fennel tea is quite good for bloating and nausea, has a Dr checked her over Basil? Like Myrtle said their guts can slow down which can cause issues.

@basilbrush I know this sounds stupid but don’t knock it till you try it my d regularly lies on the floor in her back and puts her legs up against a wall!

as others have sorry to be crude but how are her bowls as my D is prescribed laxatives to have daily also D has tried lots of stomach medicines due to the same issue and the one she says actually works at times is Imodium
Plus comfort as although it states diarrhoea it helps with cramps and bloating

Thanks both.

It's confusing as she's still struggling to eat more than 2 pieces of any solid food (eg two spoons of breakfast, two pieces of pasta). So hearing she's hungry all the time is hard to get my head around

I was on a workshop with Eva Musby this morning which was really helpful and I feel like I am starting to understand the approach needed, but I feel like I want to take it carefully until her Maudsley assessment and we have a team to support us

Well, I did everything you're not supposed to this evening, all within about 5 mins 😔 Lost my temper and shouted at her, then promptly burst into tears on her, then tried to reason and rationalize with her. Honestly, I'm so shit at this. She definitely felt worse when I left. I'm so unhelpful 😞

@SwattyPie we've all been there. Don't beat yourself up x

Thanks for this thread. I will read it all tomorrow. My two best friends and I all have at least one teen girl each with an eating disorder.

@myrtleWilson Thank you so much for this useful info and links. She was constipated this weekend but has said things are ok now. She is utterly sick of my asking if she's pooed but I will certainly keep doing so.

Anyone got any good words to use to help encourage DD to take meds? She "doesn't want to change the way she thinks" and is obviously terrified. Have managed to get day 1 in but she says she'll stop the minute she gets any side effects....

SwattyPie We also had an awful night last night. Dd has been doing so well but hee ED is kicking back strongly and I flipped. It's just so incredibly frustrating, frightening and downright relentless at times and it's just impossible to keep a calm exterior all the time. Hugs to you. Hope you have a better day today.

Hi OnceRuralNowUrbanbliss. Sorry you're here but this thread and the previous threads have been an absolute gold mine of information and support. I hope we can help.

@SwattyPie I don't know if you have read the Maudsley book with all the different animals in (the ways in which parents can respond), but it's a standing joke in this house I can flip from Rhino to Terrier and then just go Ostrich in about 5 min. you are supposed to be calm nice Dolphin nudging your child along to success! My children tell me though that dolphins can be very aggressive horrid animals as well:)

We can't do right for doing wrong, the ED puts us in the wrong and it's hard not to judge ourselves, but really, by being there and keeping trying, even if we are doing it wrong, we are helping. That's what I tell myself anyway!

Oh god I recognise the cycling through the animals at warp speed! It reminds me of when they were toddlers and you'd do the firm-boundaried-parent, the cajoling parent, the loving positive reinforcement parent with the space of five minutes.

I have said and done so many awful things throughout this. I don't believe any parent going through FBT if they say they've behaved calmly and rationally throughout. DD used to say 'you're the mad one' (particularly after I screamed loud and long in the car one time) and I was driven mad by this illness.

Going back to friends and family saying unhelpful things. One of my dearest and loveliest friends invited us all over for supper and had made a lovely fish pie and key lime pie as they were so calorific. She honestly thought that the problem was DD not having enough nice food put in front of her and this was the solution. It was sweet but so misguided. Another friend has a son with high functioning autism and she absolutely got it - the frustration, the shame, the fear, the way the whole family was being torn apart.

PS welcome @OnceRuralNowUrbanbliss - please fire away with any questions as someone on here will have answers.

I know therapy is not advisable until weight restored and even then some do not need it, however to prevent another relapse i wanted to get something lined up to help D she has and i was looking into RO -DBT does anyone have any experience of this?

I'd like some advice on motivation/desire to do future activities.

@myrtleWilson based on your post we're going to do a motivation board over the weekend, and DD also wants to do a countdown to Christmas with all the things she's planned and is looking forward to on it. I think this is positive.

However, how do I handle things that are dependent on improvement?

Eg there is a shopping trip into Central London planned mid Dec (we're zone 3) followed by a sleepover at a friends. DD is really excited about this.

However, how things currently stand it would be impossible for me to let her go and keep her safe - she's not eating proper meals, is relying on fortisip, I'm having to limit physical activity, and I absolutely couldn't trust her to eat (or drink) without me there. I've mentioned 'I hope you can go' before and she's just told me that she is going no matter what.

I think this could be a powerful motivation tool, however I'm not sure the timeline is realistic for her to be able to achieve this. I don't want it to have the opposite effect of disillusionment if she has shown improvement but still can't go

I was thinking about (outside of a mealtime) having an open conversation with her that I really want her to be able to these things, but that I also have to keep her safe and that we need to see daily progress for it to be a possibility.

Is this too much pressure? How would you handle it?

@LittlePickleHead I hope doing the board is a great exercise for you both - when Dd was aiming for her greek holiday we used some gentle conversations dropped in now and then to get her talk about what she envisaged a day looking like and then did some 'dolphining' about the energy needed to do that etc. We also had the 'strong' mindmap to prompt e.g. 'so you said being strong meant not collapsing each day, how can we get to that point to make Greece more possible?'. I think we all knew (dd included) that Greece wasn't ever on the cards but it a powerful symbol of a future that could exist if different choices were taken. So there was no kick off when Greece didn't happen because DD was planning for the next 'Greece' - our experience was DD needed to rehearse recovery before going for it. DD was older than your DD though so I don't know how that may change things a bit...

I've linked a video from Ro Mitchell who is now 20 and in recovery from anorexia and doing heaps better - but in this video you can see next to her bowl she has laminated future board which you could use in conversations about eating when she's eating (as ever, and as well all know all to well - pick your moments!) I really recognised DD in Ro's videos which is why they resonate with me (also Ro's mom has good meal guidance tips/calm voice which was a great help for me to model)

myrtleWilson

I spent hours last night watching Ro's videos. What an articulate and inspirational young lady she is. I'm not sure my dd is ready to see her videos yet but she's helped me gain a lot of insight from the sufferers perspective. Thank you.

Yeah I wouldn't show dd any videos where the poster is still visibly ill and underweight as I think it would be triggering but it is interesting for me to see it.

Sugary cereal is one of dds fears, pre ED her favourite treat cereal was chocolate pillows which she's now not eaten for nearly 3 years ☹️

Feeling really overwhelmed this evening. Weekends feel harder and today has been a struggle since breakfast.

DD13 is spending most of the time acting normal, looking forward to Christmas and plans. But she won't eat food! I just feel panic over every meal trying to get her to take even one bite.

I'm catastrophising and worrying that even with the support of the ED team I won't be able to get her eating. She is so keen for this Christmas to be amazing, but I'm so stressed about it.

Little how much are you getting into her calorie wise? You might need to get her checked over medically wise again.

What happens when you put the food down in front of her? What leverage have you got?

When's your appointment with the ED team?

I’m really worried and wanted anyone help or opinion but I have been tracking Ds calories ( she doesn’t know in liaison with her dietician and every day this week she has had in between 3,900-4,5000 and no weight has been gained after a trip to hospital due to heart pain she was weighed ( normal weigh day is Monday) and she has not gained anything in fact lost 200 grams and was worryingly wearing jeans so heavy than her normal weigh day clothes.

Are you on the fb group love? I know I mentioned hyper metabolism before but you might get more opinions on there. I know some parents mentioned having to go well over 5000 cals a day to get a gain.

Does she feel hot or sweaty?

My mind is blown. How the hell do you get 4500/5000 cal in? I'm struggling with 1500 here. I know that won't weight gain but it's such a fight already. I guess they have to be on board with recovery to agree to 5000?