Teen Eating Issues/Disorders Support Thread 2

[myrtleWilson]

Our first thread is almost full. Here is our second - a place to seek and share advice, to lament and scream with rage and sadness, to celebrate each other's successes as we navigate the choppy waters of supporting our children with eating disorders.

All are very welcome, whether you're at the start of this journey or a more seasoned traveller.

I'll link this thread to the first one and then I thought it may be helpful if on joining this one we did a quick precis of our current situation.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eating_disorders/4016379-teen-eating-issues-support-thread?msgid=104736115

Myrtle that was a great day,and whilst not all run smoothly,glimpses of "normality" should be recognised and appreciated
Lougle I'm sorry today was so rubbish.lil zoo gets sick if eats large amounts of fat.doesnt fat move more slowly thru system so stomach empties more slowly and contents sitting there increases nausea?(please tell me to shut up if nec)

@myrtleWilson - could you share what you said to your GP with me? DD17 been refused the jab by her GP but I'm about to approach another GP within the practice to ask again ...

I haven't looked at MCT oil. I'll look at it. @Stilllivinginazoo it may well be that. The trouble is, she won't eat enough quantity of carbs/protein to make up the calories, so I use fat because it's 9cal/g Vs 4cal/g.

@myrtleWilson am sure I'm not the only one here who feels its vital for us to see what positives can lie ahead on this relentless journey. Family meal together...brilliant. Another milestone. Hope DD continues to fight and see the light.

Sure @Girlinorange - will PM you! Thanks roo - I know we're still in the midst of it and I've taken positives from others steps but didn't want it to sound like I was crowing...(am really not, am terrified of jinxing it!)

@myrtleWilson please keep sharing the positives. There are so few people in real life who understand what a win pasta and sitting down together is and it needs to be shared. I think the ride is such a roller coaster that writing the small wins down helps when in the grip of a downwards trajectory to look back and think ‘no this is possible’....
@Lougle so sorry to hear about the vomiting. It must be so soul destroying knowing all that hard work by you and DD has come up again....I don’t have any advice but sending good vibes for today.
The cupcake incident was not mentioned last eve by DD. So leaving that one alone. We fell out about her insistence on bouncing a ball endlessly but by bed time we were friends again.
Today is the first day she has PE at school and so the first day her old exercise schedule looks different.
Things were going well until DS2 told her the girls in his class played frisbee in PE. Cue a complete meltdown and a refusal to go in to school as the activity is not comparable. Anyway I have stuck to my guns and told her that even if she stayed off PE she would not be doing her walk (which it had replaced). Lots of blustering about if PE was f*ing frisbee she would NEVER go back etc etc.
I knew today (and tomorrow which is Games) would be the first real test. I had all the old ‘you are trying to make me unfit’ accusations back. I merely stated that she had said this before and the reverse had happened. Which of course cuts no ice.
Her KW and I discussed her pattern of thinking which is to face a change, panic, get cross, refuse, meltdown, do it anyway or be forced to do it anyway (not without considerable cost to me, her, my house etc) and then over time an acceptance. So expecting these 3 weeks to be tough.
It also backed up her KW’s worry that with exercise compulsion weight can be restored but the AN never really goes away as exercise is used as a partner and they can go hand in hand for years. So although physically restored mentally the illness persists.
I often think I am really getting somewhere and then realise that weight on does not really mean total recovery....although clearly I am pleased about the weight, and that we have such a way to go with DD

Oh and of course that unsupervised morning snack is a very likely casualty of frisbee gate...

@Lotts i admire your strength in sticking to your guns. Those patterns of behaviour you describe are uncannily familiar. I've faltered in the past by not seeing changes through and weakening, at times just finding meltdown after meltdown too much to cope with. So don't lose sight of what an incredible mum you're being to your DD. Sounds like you give her the consistency and compassion she needs. That's a bloody hard job. I agree that physical recovery is by no means full recovery-although our DD is 8kg heavier than 4 mths ago thanks to her IP prog, the mental journey is going to take far longer. She's no where near ready to let go of her illness. Just hoping that with a sustained, high enough wfh we'll have the best possible chance at working on the mindset.

Lots I wonder if your dd will end up similar to my sil who was anorexic in her teens and also has a huge exercise compulsion. She is now late 20s and a semi professional hockey player, she exercises every day (runs,gym, cycles etc) and works full time as a teacher BUT eats loads!! She is a healthy weight and understands the importance of fuelling her body, she eats a lot at a guess 3000-4000 calories a day but does still avoid 'unhealthy' foods preferring lots of protein, carbs, fruit and veg.

Knowing now what I know I suspect she has made a deal with the anorexia that she can eat well as long as she does the exercise, I'm not sure if this would be classed as fully recovered or as a functioning anorexic? That said she appears super healthy and happy so who knows.

Myrtle that sounds like great progress, I know what you mean about jinxing it though. I'm afraid to think anything positive as things can change in an instant 😕 It definitely sounds like your dd wants to get well though and that is more than half the battle imo.

Lougle I wonder if an antiemetic might help or something like omeprazole? Have you talked to the ED team about the vomiting? Would having her main meal at lunch be possible? Sorry for all the questions!!

I'm in my bedroom as dd is downstairs having her weekly zoom cbt session. We have both been grumpy with each other this morning 🙄 I'm tired as not slept well and she annoyed me as hasn't done what the cbt lady asked her to (keep a thoughts/feelings diary) I don't think she realises how lucky she is to even get this therapy.

@myrtleWilson please share positive news - I'm truly happy about the pasta. I really genuinely thrilled when someone on this board has good news, it feels like one for the team.

@Lottsbiffandsmudge it must be difficult not having periods as a litmus test. But she's quite young, isn't she, so it might well be that she wouldn't have had her periods anyway. My daughter was about six months younger than I was when she got her first period (i.e. pretty comparable) so the age you were might be useful indicator.

DD back at school and is definitely eating less than she would at home and in addition seems less willing to eat a lot here. She says she's having the morning snack (a 9 bar) but she isn't having yoghurt at lunch as she would do here and says the school puddings aren't great. Her talk of calories and sugar seems to have increased too and last night she cried for the first time in ages. I really don't like my husband's way of dealing with her - it's all threats and strictness and I don't think it works. But it's a bit like when they were babies - you can't say yours is the right way as we've both got rights to parent as we see fit. I just feel that as a woman (and one who's had issues around food, not an ED, but dieting, self-hatred, guilt etc), I might have greater insight.

My dd vomits a lot in hospital. It’s the anxiety for her as she knows there is no escape from intake. She never vomits at home. Wonder if it’s anxiety Lougle.

Valley it sounds like the ED is pushing back a bit, has your dh seen any of the Eva Musby stuff? There's some short clips on YouTube, she explains why shouting and threats don't really work in the longer term. It might be she's not ready for school though if can't manage to eat while there.....

So we've had Camhs morning here, the cbt lady said dd did well and is engaging in the process. I just have had a session with the psychiatrist, she's happy with progress and reckons dd is 'almost at the right weight' I do not agree with that at all and think dd needs around another 5-6kgs to be healthy.

The EDSUK group talk about 'state not weight' and I think that's right, in my mind dd will be at the right weight when she can go to the kitchen and help herself to a chocolate biscuit and not think anything of it.

She also said dd never had a formal diagnosis of anorexia as her wfh was never low enough although does accept this is probably because we caught it quite early on. She does have a diagnosis of 'restrictive eating disorder' though.

Thanks all @Girliefriendlikespuppies I think that is my fear. She wants to play professional football but my fear is she will never have the resilience mentally for that however good she is at the actual game. I agree with you re the weight. I hope the psychiatrist didn’t say that in front of your DD?
@Valleyofthedollymix
So I have had a panicked message as because of the rain they weren’t allowed to go on the Astro and spent the PE lesson stretching. So the message was full of I can’t do this anymore. You promised it would be ok. Etc etc
On the plus side she has stayed at school. She has after school football club later ( I am picking up my sons and giving her her 4pm snack in the car park) and I guess she knows if she comes home that will not happen.
So now I need to decide what to do about the ‘missed’ session. Part of me knows she needs to learn that exercise does not have to be intense to ‘count’ but stretching is not really exercise at all.
Massive quandary, I have messaged her KW for advice and have until 1pm when I pick it up to decide to ‘go into battle’ over it or allow something else later to ‘make up for it’
This is so bloody hard. God knows if she ate snack. If I ask she will just shout ‘yes’ in a ‘stop asking me you old cow’ way.
@valley to my shame I cannot remember when I got my period.... I think it was year 9 but I am a Jan birthday and DD a July one so this could well be normal for DD...

Ha @Lottsbiffandsmudge - to be honest, it's not like my first period date is etched in my mind, I just know I was 13 (I'm a late summer birthday so it must have been y9) and it was term time. So it might have been up to a year earlier than DD's so not actually that useful a guide. I do know women who've had early first periods (e.g. primary school) say their daughters have been the same.

A positive out of all this is that we all now talk about periods very openly. It's good for my son, I think, however cringe he finds it, while we had a surreal time at the therapist's with the male nurse as a disembodied head on a screen in the corner and everyone congratulating DD on menstruating.

Both my husband and I come from uptight posh British families so this is somewhat different to our upbringings.

@Girliefriendlikespuppies that's such good advice to point DH towards Eva Musby. He hasn't done the same homework as I have so if I sell it as expert advice rather than my opinion, it'll come across better.

So this morning DD1 wouldn't have a smoothie for breakfast 'because of what happened last night', but didn't want cereals, toast, etc. In the end I took her to McDonald's for pancakes and syrup. She used to love it. She told me it would be best to have it without syrup in case she spilled it I said I was happy to clear up any mess and she needed to use the whole pot.

DH did lunch as I had a bad migraine so I went to bed. He did her normal cheese & mayo sandwich. She started refusing after the first nibble. He managed to get ¼ of the sandwich in and she's completely refused the rest. I've just offered a chocolate brownie and got a point blank 'No, I'm very full from breakfast and I'm angry because Dad tried to force feed me my sandwich when I told him I was too full.' DH says that all he did was pick up the ¼ sandwich and encourage her to bite it.

I don't know what to do. She hates the Fortijuice now. Her new supplement, requested at the end of February, hasn't even arrived and she hated the one I did try to get. She won't have smoothies now because she vomited last night. She's turned down a brownie. She just doesn't want food. No drama, just led in bed, saying no.

valleywhen periods come is complicated to answer.i was almost 13(summer before I started upper school)lil zoo was 12,next DD up was 15,eldest DD 17 and about to be investigated as why they hasn't appeared(no weight issues) so from my family experience there is no set time,just when individual bodies are ready

I don't have answers or suggestions to those struggling today,just compassion and support with it all

Lil zoo was doing 1+2 at school today.had nothing before school.got in 1130 and had a soy milkshake carton.lunch was could rolls with lots salad and tuna and bag of crisps.not had anything else eat,or any other drinks.ive been shouted at and stomped off when I asked wanted anything else.i guess I'm going to have to get used to this

Oh gosh @lougle so tough. I see on that FB page that some have had success with anti sickness meds?
@Stilllivinginazoo also tough. How long is her phased return? Does she want to go school and does that give you any leverage?
I decided to stand firm at lunch about replacing PE and therefore we had the worst meltdown in weeks. Violent rage.
It got to the point where she was in danger of not getting lunch eaten, then not getting back to school, and then missing her first taste of football with anyone other than her dad, brothers or me in 3 months. So irrational all over a walk! Anyway I decided to play the 'I will speak to your KW and see what she says'trick so we could get her tuna (and snot) toastie down and she went back and I met her after school and she ate her nuts before going over to club.
In the meantime KW has come back and suggested we agree what 'counts' as exercise and agree 'graded replacements'. So I have decided all activity counts except stretching for 40 mins and on that basis if she does Games tomorrow with no push back she can walk with me or her dad after dinner tomorrow.
OMG I am exhausted. It was like being back at the beginning again. Being accused of all sorts. I cant have her negotiating after every piece of exercise as most will never come up to her Ed's requirements.
Hope everyones evening go a little better....

Oh shit Lougle I’m so sorry, what a bloody nightmare. Could you ‘trick’ her that a tablet (something innocuous/homeopathic) is a tablet to stop her being sick and see if she’ll eat/drink then?

DD is still hoping to get back to school PE and Netball after Easter. I don’t know what will happen if she can’t - she’s already saying she thinks she has put enough weight back on so won’t increase unless she is allowed to exercise.

Waiting to see if the Team will accept me doing weight and BP at home from now on. Trying to avoid DD having to come out of school for it - had hoped that our docs would take over but they have said no, suggesting I do it instead. Never mind that I will have to buy a monitor and scales, I didn’t really want to introduce scales at home to a bloody anorexic when we’ve never had them!

Lott's it's under constant review.they wanted check in at Easter break.i knew food wouldn't go in so insisted check in Friday this week.this week she's in 1+2 or 5+6.as pe tom 1+2 which is agreed she shouldn't be doing as gets dizzy spells it's 5+6,so no food again til after-school tom....

Hi all, been lurking and am on FB page. D14, ED ‘not otherwise specified’ as aim is to be non-female rather than thin. We’re with MCCAED at Maudsley, at about 88% wfh and just about maintaining. Spends 6/14 nights with XH who D is adamant mustn’t know. I’m def cracking under strain, still working 90% and in constant contact when D at dad’s, suggesting and policing snacks and meals. He is v tricky narc character who may well undermine Maudsley approach if brought in. Went back into school (from his) today, had 300ish cal breakfast and took just hummus sandwich with carrot and tomato, so I drove to pick her up, got time wrong, couldn’t get hold of her, v nearly crashed the car (realising the truth of the whole oxygen mask thing) BUT in the end found her, picked her up, was super apologetic, ate 400 plus snack I’d brought and I think really got how important it all is. Yesterday was DIRE, 80min confrontation over morning snack. Wanted to do a hope post, really - after v anxious 24hrs I dropped them both off at Dad’s this eve feeling like ED D genuinely gets that eating full snack and full lunch at school HAS to happen or will be in supervision. Am trying not to use ‘we’ll have to tell Dad’ as a threat as I think we do have to (trying right now to find a strategy that won’t blow back on her in a “it’s so upsetting and hurtful to you that you confide in Mummy and not me and that strangers know” etc - any tips welcome) and I don’t want it to feel like a punishment.

Hope others’ school days have been ok - sorry for an incoherent entry to thread, have got so much from lurking and thank you and love and solidarity to you all. I’m hanging by a thin thread carrying it all myself, tbh (and massively stress eating, which I’ve never really done before, but I’ll worry about that later!)

I don't think she's feeling sick, although she says she is, but she doesn't want to vomit and is worried about that.

She ate 4 meatballs but didn't eat the sauce or spaghetti. 915 calories today total.

Lougle I don’t want to post over you, sounds really tough. Might root ginger in hot water or something gentle like that be an option? Could genuinely help - I used a lot in early pregnancy.

@amimakingitup you're not posting over me That's exactly what this thread is for. You post to download, and if you have any helpful, interesting or commiserating comments for someone else, dive in. We all have varying capacity for coping at any moment!

It's great that your DD has got it. I don't think it matters what the reason for eating difficulties are. If they're there, we're here

I have to share this with you. It’s something that has actually made me laugh tonight, and shows how totally bonkers this bloody illness has made my daughter. We are both laughing about it - it’s the utter ridiculousness of it that DD recognises, but is helpless to change.

Making her sandwich for tomorrow’s lunch:

2 slices of bread that are identical and fit together perfectly, open out like a book.
Thin layer of light mayo totally covering each piece right to the edge. Scrape each edge down so none spills over.
Add mustard to one third of one slice taking as much care as with the mayo.
Take 4 slices of ham and place each slice perfectly at each corner, replace any slices that fold or crease.
Take salad leaves place in middle and fan out to the edges so it’s slightly raised in the middle, less at the edge, and none goes over the edge.
Put the top on.
Cut the sandwich into uneven quarters - horizontal cut the bottom third (with the mustard) then make vertical cut NOT in the middle or a third, but in between the two.

Why? Because it means she can eat the sandwich from worst quarter to best quarter instead of worrying about eating them in the wrong order and the calories being ‘wasted’ on food that she won’t enjoy eating because it isn’t perfect.

When eating, take one bite, eat one half of a cherry tomato. Take another bite, eat one slice of cucumber. Repeat.
Reduces sizes of bite towards the end to ensure you don’t have any toms or slices left, because you can’t eat them if you have no sandwich left to accompany.

Bonkers. Utterly, utterly bonkers

She'll burn more calories than she'll get