Physiotherapy SEEN

[VenusEnvyXX]

I am concerned about the CSP's position statement on transphobia and want to explore whether members think the CSP would benefit from having it's own SEEN.

If you're not familiar with SEENs, they are a balance to the LGBTQIA+ groups, can be formally recognised and eligible for funding on an equal footing as other network groups. They exist in civil service, journalism, police, HR, city, and the NHS one is nearly ready to launch.

I do not agree with Rob Yeldham, and previously, Karen Middleton, when they say that physiotherapy has a transphobia issue. If there is evidence of this I have not seen it.

I have been contacted by a number of CSP staff and members, who share my concerns that this announcement misrepresents the law, defames members and manages to be both unnecessary and unclear.

It seems that people who are diametrically opposed to the view that sex is real and immutable are employed by and in positions of power and influence at our trade union. This is absolutely fine, it is important for a trade union to reflect its membership. I am uncomfortable with the views of activists forming policy without due process and debate. I hope to be wrong, but I suspect that might have happened in the formation of this CSP position statement.

It is difficult to speak up about these issues, people are scared of being accused of transphobia, and rightly so, the personal penalties can be high.

If you would be willing to share your views or insights with me anonymously here then I'd be grateful. Alternatively, (and if you are willing to trust that I am who I say I am!):
email - [email protected]
substack - @venusenvyxx
twitter - @gussiegrips

I am proud to have had a long career in physio and it seems to me that this is little more than a training and communication issue, which, like sex, is not complicated.

bests
Elaine Miller

Well that sounds better than I expected!

Interesting...

"follow up fully"? So, they are going to engage with the membership?

Maybe they have read Cass?

If Holyrood can do it then there's no excuse for any other institution
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5071226-scottish-parliament-votes-to-accept-cass-report-forbes-made-deputy-first-minister?reply=135121176

Good thread on puberty blockers. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057269-5057269-puberty-blockers-how-exactly-did-we-get-here

I was at Holyrood yesterday for Cass' session. There were the usual in-house shenanigans, but the most shocking thing to witness in that hour was the intransigent position of some of the MSPs. Despite the evidence, despite the stakeholders, despite the detransitioners...there be zealots.

I suspect all institutions have people in positions of power and influence who simply cannot understand that harm has been done by groups and individuals which are politically and financially motivated. I don't suppose that the CSP is exempt from that.

I had a conversation with the CSP about my complaint. The conversation started with the admission that they didn’t think the LGBTQ group would take down the ‘men can be lesbians too’ tweet.

She gave every impression of understanding and sympathising with the upset the tweet has caused. I said I felt it was deliberately inflammatory given the discourse of the previous few days- there was no need to mention trans on lesbian visibility week and doing so felt like poking the bear. She appeared to understand this and agreed that the abuse and vitriol that was aimed at those who disagreed was unacceptable.

There was a lot of chat about wider issues of freedom of expression and how the CSP hadn’t found that balance, and needed to rethink their comms approach given the current climate. They had previously taken the attitude that members committees were made up of professional, intelligent people and even if one of them wanted to publicly say something unwise, there would be others there to put a stop to it. That’s clearly not happened here, and there are other examples of this happening in the past (apparently). The CSP doesn’t police what the members committees put on their social media feeds and does not have the staffing to start doing this. They recognise that the members committees having an official CSP name means that what is said on there can seem like it’s policy coming from top down, but their approach is to have policies decided by members.

So overall I feel slightly unsatisfied since what I really would like is for that tweet to go and there to be some sort of contrition, and it sounds like that’s unlikely. But there might be bigger moves on allowing better freedom of expression and respectful discourse, which is positive. I felt like the issues have been heard and understood. My understanding is that there will be some further discussions over the coming weeks, and the person I spoke to is going to get back to me once that’s done.

Surely the CSP should be discussing this with the LBGT+ group and if it is tweeting in the CSP's name this is definitely something the CSP should be monitoring and fixing. It's all very well to say we don't have enough staff to monitor. Well if you don't moderate or have no sight of posts then don't let groups use the CSP name on Twitter/X?? It sounds like a fairly inadequate response

Free speech only seems to be afforded to certain groups of people within our profession

If you need to monitor what a committee of a body says publicly then the committee is not fit for purpose.

Why do these two women get to decide that lesbian members should do dick? It’s grotesque.

sexuality is a protected characteristic, that tweet is lesbophobic so where the fuck is the leadership in council and CSP?

Staff monitoring? What the hell does that mean?

Why do professional conversations and debates need monitored? And by whom? Rob Yeldham? What are they monitoring FOR?

I’m a professional and expect to be treated as such by my own professional body.

It’s fucking sinister.

I agree, and I think some form of discussion has been had. My impression was that they had been asked to take it down, and said no on the basis that they wouldn't bow down to the "transphobia". This wasn't said explicitly, it was just the impression I got.

Edited to add: I think the lack of monitoring has been purposeful to align with their philosophy that policy is made by the members for the members. But the CSP didn't anticipate a renegade committee taking a polarised approach to an issue, and then shouting 'hate speech' at anyone who disagreed. The person I spoke to implied that there were members of that committee who left because they didn't like the direction it was taking. in fairness, I think I would have done the same (left I mean, not scream hate speech at people!).

Then we need a discussion about what transphobia, whether it trumps lesbophobia, and if so, why.

There are an unknown number of members who disagree with this authoritarian word salad compulsory speech. It’s so offensive to say lesbians should do dick, which is the unofficial position of my governing body. Not just one tweet, either, they doubled down and blocked complaining lesbians.

It looks very bad. It’s a leadership issue.

Has the new CEO said anything at all since he started?

The new CEO doesn’t do social media by the looks of things. He has an article in the latest issue of the magazine but it doesn’t really say much.

Quick updates:

I'm sure we used to link to Gender GP on the website. I can't find any reference now, which is good, but does anyone remember the previous links? We were also encouraged to follow Travis Abalanza for help in becoming an ally (I saw Burgerz, so, I think I've done enough for Travis in this lifetime) the suggestions to follow him are still there, but most of the links have gone how to be an ally

I'm hoping we are not linked to Gender GP any more, that seems to be spiralling, at long last.

The Mermaids link is still there, with a strange caveat which reads to me as "lawyers told us to state we know they are dodgy, but we can't cut ties because of the bias of some committee members"

Further to that, the diversity content is behind a wall, you have to be a member to see the content. Does anyone know why, or whether other professional networks are closed to all membersdiversity network pages?

HEALTH SEEN is up.

I suggest you all follow or get in touch with them. Is anyone interested in forming a sub group within NHS SEEN?

They are good people, I know some of them well enough to be confident that this is going to be a huge resource for re-installing common sense and an evidence base in health care for people with gender issues.

Re Cass - if you want to express gratitude, here's her address or a thread.

This woman is now unable to travel on the tube and subject to multiple serious threats because she did her job.

Congratulations on everything you are all doing - Physio SEEN cannot come soon enough! (I hope a SaLT SEEN might materialise too as I have come across several SaLTs who are active in the Women's Right Network.)

I have been following the "UK Physios" thread since it started and posted the info on Section 57 of the Equality Act on 5 May, unaware that the "Physiotherapy SEEN" thread existed.

I am copying and pasting it here in case it was missed by CSP members who are not following that thread.

I think Section 57 could be important, given the way CSP staff, elected representatives and authorised social media accounts are conducting themselves in their dealings with CSP members who are expressing gender critical views.

Section 57 of the Equality Act 2010 has wider implications than discrimination by a Trade Union (or Professional Organisation) in terms of failure to represent a member in the workplace.

Note: although the wording of the Act refers to discrimination against an individual, the first example cited in the Explanatory Notes is of discrimination against a group: "men", having the protected characteristic of sex.

============

"Could they (CSP) potentially refuse to provide representation to a member with GC views?"

(Retired SaLT Union Rep chipping in here)

If they do then they would be in breach of Section 57 of the Equality Act 2010.

57. Trade organisations

(1) A trade organisation (A) must not discriminate against a person (B)—

(a) in the arrangements A makes for deciding to whom to offer membership of the organisation;

(b) as to the terms on which it is prepared to admit B as a member;

(c) by not accepting B's application for membership.

(2) A trade organisation (A) must not discriminate against a member (B)—

(a) in the way it affords B access, or by not affording B access, to opportunities for receiving a benefit, facility or service;

(b) by depriving B of membership;

(c) by varying the terms on which B is a member;

(d) by subjecting B to any other detriment.

(3) A trade organisation must not, in relation to membership of it, harass—

(a) a member, or

(b) an applicant for membership.

(4) A trade organisation (A) must not victimise a person (B)—

(a) in the arrangements A makes for deciding to whom to offer membership of the organisation;

(b) as to the terms on which it is prepared to admit B as a member;

(c) by not accepting B's application for membership.

(5) A trade organisation (A) must not victimise a member (B)—

(a) in the way it affords B access, or by not affording B access, to opportunities for receiving a benefit, facility or service;

(b) by depriving B of membership;

(c) by varying the terms on which B is a member;

(d) by subjecting B to any other detriment.

(6) A duty to make reasonable adjustments applies to a trade organisation.

(7) A trade organisation is—

(a) an organisation of workers,

(b) an organisation of employers, or

(c) any other organisation whose members carry on a particular trade or profession for the purposes of which the organisation exists.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/57

Explanatory Notes to Section 57:

191. This section makes it unlawful for a trade organisation to discriminate against, harass or victimise a person who is, or is applying to be, a member. It also requires trade organisations to make reasonable adjustments for disabled people.

192. A trade organisation is an organisation of workers (such as a trade union) or employers (such as the Chambers of Commerce); or an organisation whose members carry out a particular trade or profession (such as the British Medical Association, the Institute of Civil Engineers and the Law Society).

193. This section is designed to replicate the effect of similar provisions in previous legislation. It also extends the protection to cover discrimination in the arrangements made for determining to whom membership should be offered.

Examples

A trade union restricts its membership to men. This would be direct discrimination.

An organisation of employers varies membership subscriptions or access to conferences because of a person’s race. This would be direct discrimination.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/5/1/19

============

They might already be in breach of Section 57 if they are conflating gender critical views with "transphobia" as per the CSP definition, eg.

by deleting comments so that members with gender critical views are prevented from enjoying the benefit of services provided by the CSP and participation in CSP activities and discussion;

by encouraging CSP members to harass other members with gender critical views by reporting them for "hate".

CSP should take legal advice about the statement it has issued.

It might consider avoiding legal action by amending the Statement, clarifying:

that gender critical views are not transphobic

that all the protections it wishes to provide for people who believe in the existence of gender identities must also be provided for people who do not believe in the existence of gender identities

same sort of thing re "Conversion Practices" (you get the picture).

Hope this is helpful xx

ps. VenusEnvyXX I am eternally grateful for your pelvic floor exercises - how are you getting on with those voice exercises? 😘

============

Original post on UK Physios thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4479019-uk-physios?page=9&reply=135030438

Maybe that’s an old link, I can see the information about all the diversity networks here, including who’s who when it comes to running them https://www.csp.org.uk/networks/diversity-networks

They appear to have taken down the LGBTQ page on the CSP website. The Twitter account is still active but the page link on the Twitter account says ‘loading error’. The how to be an ally information appears to have changed again (no mermaids mention that I can see). And the page that’s behind the login screen tells me I don’t have access even after logging in.

interesting.

Nicked from WRN

"Archiving is useful if you suspect that a page has been updated and you want to go back to the earliest version archived."

----

Some Online Tools to Archive Web Pages, Twitter/X, PDFs, etc.

Archive sites are not 100% reliable so use more than one archive site if you want to be sure you will be able to access an archived version in future.

Some popular archiving sites:

1. Archive.today
(does NOT remove archived web pages because someone might find them embarrassing)

archive.today

(The "today" part of the URL will change to something else as there are several "mirror" sites that take care of archiving and save the archived pages.)

Note: since Twitter introduced long-form tweets, Archive Today is no longer able to archive tweets plus replies or Twitter threads, only the target tweet.

Do not try archiving PDFs using Archive Today - use Web Archive (see below).

Info copied and pasted from Archive.today:

"Archive.today is a time capsule for web pages!"

It takes a 'snapshot' of a webpage that will always be online even if the original page disappears.

It saves a text and a graphical copy of the page for better accuracy and provides a short and reliable link to an unalterable record of any web page

This can be useful if you want to take a 'snapshot' a page which could change soon: price list, job offer, real estate listing, drunk blog post, ...

Saved pages will have no active elements and no scripts, so they keep you safe as they cannot have any popups or malware!

NOTE: you cannot archive PDF files using archive.today, you need to use the Internet Archive aka Web Archive aka Wayback Machine - see below.

=========

2a. Web Archive / Wayback Machine
(This site DOES remove archived pages on request)

web.archive.org

"Capture a web page as it appears now for use as a trusted citation in the future."

Use web.archive.org to archive PDF files.

Note: since Twitter introduced long-form tweets, Archive Today is no longer able to archive tweets plus replies or Twitter threads, only the target tweet.

Web Archive is part of the Internet Archive. You can also use the Internet Archive to archive other media, eg. video

2b. Internet archive: https://archive.org/

Internet Archive is a non-profit library of millions of free books, movies, software, music, websites, and more.

=========

3. Ghost Archive

ghostarchive.org/

"Ghostarchive is a free-to-use archiving website designed to be fast and easy to use."

Ghost Archive is still able to archive Tweets plus replies and Twitter Threads.

However, it can be a bit unreliable and you might have to try several times or try clearing your browser cookie for Ghost Archive to see if that helps.

More info: ghostarchive.org/about.html

=========

4. Pinboard - Personal Archive Subscription

pinboard.in/

"Pinboard is a fast, independently run, no-nonsense bookmarking site for people who value privacy and speed."

Pinboard bookmarks are on the internet, not in your browser, so you can access them whatever device you are using.

I currently have over fifty five thousand bookmarks acquired over the last 10 years and highly recommend Pinboard if you are serious about bookmarking - and categorising bookmarks using tags so you can retrieve information quickly.

• You can make individual bookmarks public or private.
• You can also share all public bookmarks with a particular tag.
• You can make tags private by starting them with a full-stop.

Bookmarking: $22 per year
Archival accounts: $39 per year

pinboard.in/tour/#archive

"Pinboard offers a bookmark archiving service for an annual fee of $39. The site will crawl and store a copy of every bookmark in your account, and display a special icon you can click to see the cached copy.

If the page you bookmarked goes offline, you'll still be able to see the archived copy indefinitely.

The site will also show you which of your bookmarks have dead links, or give errors."

=========

5. Browser Extensions

There are Browser Extensions for archive sites that make it easy to search for pages that have already been archived and to add new pages/PDFs to the archives.

These are specific to the Browser, eg. Firefox, Safari, Chrome and Chrome-based browsers such as Brave.

You can find links for some of these on:

archive.today and web.archive.org

If you want to check out other options, find out how to add Extensions to your Browser then search your Browser's Extension Library for other archiving extensions.

============

NOTE: THREADREADER
threadreaderapp.com/ 

Twitter Threadreader is NOT an archiving site.

You can use it to create a "page" from a Twitter thread to share with people who are not on Twitter. You can also print the "page".

However, the page will disappear if the thread is deleted or if the account is deactivated or suspended.

Threadreader also cannot retrieve tweets after a certain time even if they still exist.

To keep a Threadreader page: archive it, eg. using one of the tools above.

If you archive a Threadreader page, eg. using one of the archive sites above, the thread WILL be archived even if the tweets or twitter account are deleted.

You also get a nicer print-out from an archived Threadreader page than from the Threadreader page directly.

==========

TIP - Bookmark your archived pages, PDFs, etc.
Don't forget to bookmark an archived site once you have created it, otherwise you might find it hard to find next time you need to refer to it.

There are Search Functions on both archive sites but it can take a while to find a specific page archived at a specific point in time if you have not bookmarked it.

TIP - Print Friendly
www.printfriendly.com/
Print Friendly allows you to edit a page before sending it to your computer for printing or saving as a PDF
eg. delete images you do not need, blank spaces, etc.

The most convenient way to access Print Friendly is by installing a Browser Extension. See the "Website Tools" menu on the hame page.

==============

CHROME-BASED BROWSERS

One of the browsers I use is Brave which is Chrome-based. I use these archiving extensions:

Archive Today
chromewebstore.google.com/detail/archive-page/gcaimhkfmliahedmeklebabdgagipbia

Web Archive
chromewebstore.google.com/detail/wayback-machine/fpnmgdkabkmnadcjpehmlllkndpkmiak

With those browser extensions (aka add-ons) you don't need to visit a page to check if it has been archived or to archive it.

You can "right click" on a link to a page and you will see "Action" buttons for both of them. When you select the icon there will be a sub-menu to choose whether to Search or Archive. This saves re-archiving, particularly useful for PDFs as they are unlikely to have been updated over time.

The Web Archive icon in your Browser Extensions Menu allows you to search for the oldest or newest version of an archived page.

This is useful if you suspect that a page has been updated and you want to go back to the earliest version archived.

Sorry, I got caught up with family stuff - this was meant to be sent with the other posts.
Council:

I haven't filled out the council application yet. I've got it drafted but not sent and I'm mulling over practicalities.

Council has had time to sort this nonsense out, but, a month on and the appalling lesbophobic tweets remain; the factually incorrect transphobia position statement remains; there has still been no statement on Cass for paediatric physios who are obliged to now change from an affirmation model; we are all still censored on iCSP which is a resource we pay for, and there does not seem to be much attempt to communicate with members. It's almost as if they think that we will get bored and wander off.

I've got until Monday to decide to stand and am wondering whether council is the most efficient way of managing this. Maybe the Health SEEN and pressure from numbers would be faster than having another concerned voice on council. I know there are people on council who agree with us, so far, they have not been able to effect enough common sense. I'm a bit concerned that the nonsense that has been put out was not the original draft, it was, presumably, much worse and this version is the best of a very bad job.

My impression is that the root of this is a disconnect between what members of a very small, but influential, group of members and staff thinks, what the evidence, and law, shows and states and the unknown of what the membership actually wants.

The rainbow network is tiny, their reach is in single figures. This thread has had better engagement from the start, and the engagement on iCSP was much better than anything from the various networks twitter accounts. I'm a worried that decisions are being made from these small silos who measure success in terms of self congratulation. The fact that we can't even SEE what they are doing is staggering. So much for transparency, and it seems bizarre that members have to out themselves by applying to join - this seems to be the opposite of good practice for members seeking support from rainbow networks.

The CSP is not good at engaging with members and members are not good at engaging with the CSP. Many members see them as a way of getting professional insurance, which must be frustrating for the staff and council and groups, many of whom actually do really good work- but now that the direction of governance seems to be to coerce the likes of me into clinical situations which are outwith my scope of practice and the evidence base, well, that's got potential to get very messy very quickly and conversation is the best way to go.

It's encouraging to hear there are things going on "behind the scenes" with members, but there are some significant and difficult issues which need to be explored before putting out insulting tweets and shutting down the opinions of members who are, at least, bothering to interact with our governing body.

If I stand I have until Monday at 5pm to send in the form. It's a big time commitment and I have other issues needing attention - eg it turns out that being defamed by professional peers can impact your earnings...

Thank you for this.

It does seem to me to be indicative of something that you are posting how to archive a website to allow us to analyse which harms have been caused to some members.

Which is "professional speech" for "how the hell did we get here?"

I forgot to say that there is a secure email been set up, not by me, but by psychologists who are at a similar stage of dealing with similar issues.

Sorry, Cerys, if you're reading this - totally slipped my mind, which is currently addled. Thanks for the nudge via tweet.

"Are any of you physios wanting to connect to other physios resisting gender ideology capture? If so either use the email address
[email protected]
or contact @GussieGrips on here or Mumsnet"

Cerys' tweet

"how the hell did we get here?"

By getting on doing our jobs, putting patients first, completing CPD, having fun, raising families, enjoying hobbies, etc. while activists did their politicking, volunteering for committee work and getting elected.

Think of Militant Tendency's entryism into the Labour Party.

There was an interesting interview with Keri Smith (US ex-SJW) a few years ago. She explained that for a "Social Justice Warrior" (the popular term at the time) the sole purpose of getting an academic or professional qualification is to infiltrate and influence institutions and organisations and repurpose their resources to achieve SJW aims.

For some this will be gender identity ideology. Other examples included a business that started by appointing just one part-time "Environmental Adviser"; within a few years there was a huge Dept sapping the profits of the business until it was no longer viable.

There will be "useful idiots" helping them, often well-meaning people, and others jumping on the bandwagon. It gathers momentum and by the time regular members/workers/managers etc. notice it has become a juggernaut, with activists having their hands on all the levers to crush dissent.

Barry Wall, @EDIJester has the measure of it.

This is a handy booklet about how to tackle things from the inside - it reminded me of guides on "How to be a Trade Union Organiser" so CSP Reps should find the ideas familiar. It is generalisable from US Universities to any milieu.

Counter Wokecraft: A Field Manual for Combatting the Woke in the University and Beyond Paperback – 11 Nov. 2021
by Charles Pincourt (Author), James Lindsay (Author)
https://amzn.eu/d/5lXTCdh

Counter Wokecraft Study Guide
https://wokedissident.substack.com/p/counter-wokecraft-study-guide

Counter Wokecraft: Why I Wrote It and Why You Should Read It
https://www.mindingthecampus.org/2021/11/26/counter-wokecraft-why-i-wrote-it-and-why-you-should-read-it/

Counter Wokecraft: An Executive Summary
https://newdiscourses.com/2021/11/counter-wokecraft-an-executive-summary/

Often when I post this next link I am accused of promoting the deranged ramblings of a megalomanic but see the real examples included. This is just as much a "How To" as the "Denton's Playbook" - and it is what we are up against, now not just the T but the Q as well.

Resisting TERF’s and Transforming Their Organizations
https://archive.ph/K2IQ1

Here is a Case Study in two parts on how the RCSLT was captured:

WPATH Member takes over at UK's speech therapy royal college
https://open.substack.com/pub/loupreston/p/wpath-member-takes-over-at-uks-speech

Where democracy dies, EDI flourishes
How the speech therapy profession was captured
https://loupreston.substack.com/p/where-democracy-dies-edi-flourishes

This makes sense, @Bosky Our EDB committee is so diverse it’s got a paramedic on it. Why? Is there a physio giving insights to the paramedic body? Maybe I’m cynical but I assumed this person has the “right think” and will vote in the “right way” - but surely a member of a committee be a member of the body?