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This forum is for Health Care Professionals including student nurses, junior doctors and adult nurses.

Physiotherapy SEEN

327 replies

VenusEnvyXX · 11/04/2024 19:17

I am concerned about the CSP's position statement on transphobia and want to explore whether members think the CSP would benefit from having it's own SEEN.

If you're not familiar with SEENs, they are a balance to the LGBTQIA+ groups, can be formally recognised and eligible for funding on an equal footing as other network groups. They exist in civil service, journalism, police, HR, city, and the NHS one is nearly ready to launch.

I do not agree with Rob Yeldham, and previously, Karen Middleton, when they say that physiotherapy has a transphobia issue. If there is evidence of this I have not seen it.

I have been contacted by a number of CSP staff and members, who share my concerns that this announcement misrepresents the law, defames members and manages to be both unnecessary and unclear.

It seems that people who are diametrically opposed to the view that sex is real and immutable are employed by and in positions of power and influence at our trade union. This is absolutely fine, it is important for a trade union to reflect its membership. I am uncomfortable with the views of activists forming policy without due process and debate. I hope to be wrong, but I suspect that might have happened in the formation of this CSP position statement.

It is difficult to speak up about these issues, people are scared of being accused of transphobia, and rightly so, the personal penalties can be high.

If you would be willing to share your views or insights with me anonymously here then I'd be grateful. Alternatively, (and if you are willing to trust that I am who I say I am!):
email - [email protected]
substack - @venusenvyxx
twitter - @gussiegrips

I am proud to have had a long career in physio and it seems to me that this is little more than a training and communication issue, which, like sex, is not complicated.

bests
Elaine Miller

Position statement on transphobia

We recognise that, like other forms of discrimination, the understanding of the manifestations of transphobia will evolve. We will need to update our position in light of experience and learning, as and when appropriate. This statement will therefore b...

https://www.csp.org.uk/about-csp/equity-diversity-belonging/position-statement-transphobia

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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VenusEnvyXX · 12/04/2024 15:38

Susiewat · 12/04/2024 15:07

It’s interesting that one of the definitions of transphobia included is attempting to remove trans peoples rights-what rights are they referring to? I want to know exactly what challenging trans exclusionary approaches to service provision actually means. There are some sentences and statements I just don’t understand . As for being on the fence
on sport and single sex spaces outside health care 🤦‍♀️

Quite. It's just word salad without definitions, evidence or a point other than Big Brother Is Watching You.

If I have to live in a dystopia then I bagsie The Power, you know, the one where the women can zap bad or annoying men? That would sort things out sharpish.

I'm not a monster, I'd not fry them, but, I'd happily give a wee zing every time they forget that women are human too.

OP posts:
Boiledbeetle · 12/04/2024 20:46

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cD800W7AR3A

Having just watched Elaine's Comedy Unleashed act from the other day I can't think of anyone better to be the voice of this! After all she does have a way with words!

(cheeky way to bump the thread I'll admit! But well worth a watch!)

Elaine Miller at Comedy Unleashed's Scottish Hate Crime Special

On Monday 1st April, the hate speech law came into effect in Scotland. Comedy Unleashed organised a gig in Edinburgh to draw attention to it and puncture its...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cD800W7AR3A

stealtheatingtunnocks · 13/04/2024 13:00

That’s all in breach of the new position from the CSP!

VenusEnvyXX · 14/04/2024 13:08

Thanks for posting that@Boiledbeetle! Hits make prizes in comedy - I'm hoping to get some stage time from Comedy Unleashed, I'm so cancelled that I don't get circuit gigs at all and I realised I rather miss it!

I don't know if the CSP's new transphobia position can be applied retrospectively. I guess that if a member watches it and objects and complains I'll find out - the set was recorded before the policy was announced. It feels a bit like the hate crime bill, we'll only find out how it works once someone is charged.

OP posts:
VenusEnvyXX · 14/04/2024 13:22

Helpful things if you are able:

  • Note what your concerns about this policy are on this thread
  • share the position statement with your colleagues
  • send them here or to [email protected] so we can gather info and galvanise

Things to be aware of:

  • you can post anonymously on iCSP, but your posts are linked to your membership number so it's not actually anonymous.
  • apparently the CSP are removing posts from iCSP. A trade union controlling the freedom of expression of a member is staggering.
  • it is ok to choose to keep your mouth shut in the workplace, please don't feel like you have to be public, this is a long game.

Things which can be useful signals to "find" each other in the workplace:

  • suffragette colours - women have socks, trainers, lanyards, jewellery
  • dinosaurs
  • pin badges from For Women Scotland, Standing for Women, Sex Matters
OP posts:
VivaVivienne123 · 14/04/2024 14:42

I have just read the most recent reply from the CSP moderator on the thread and am speechless

Goldfish43 · 14/04/2024 16:22

VivaVivienne123 is that the last one on the thread from Rob Yeldham?
I’ve just replied to it asking how can we discuss this if we are labelled as transphobic for stating facts?!!

VivaVivienne123 · 14/04/2024 16:54

It is. I have been having a look on the sex matters website as they have some info on unions and their obligations under the equality act. I’m not a lawyer though so I’m unsure of how to interpret. I’ve sent them a message asking for advice.

the last comment from rob Yeldham says to me - “that last comment you made was transphobic and that’s what we don’t like!” Can we guarantee that the csp will treat gender critical members fairly?!

stealtheatingtunnocks · 14/04/2024 21:07

We should screenshot the posts and these replies so we can see what is removed.

im tempted to post lines from the comddy video

GiveHerEffervescence · 14/04/2024 21:59

I’ve been a physio for over 20 years. I completely agree with you Elaine. I feel a gender critical view is common sense - especially for a woman who would want to protect other women and children. Unfortunately, when I discuss this with my university friends who are also physios, they don’t agree, or carefully tread the rainbow party line. When I discuss it with my non NHS friends - the same. I assumed everyone thought like me (in secret) but now I’m not so sure. I hope there is a silent majority in healthcare. I really really do.

GiveHerEffervescence · 14/04/2024 22:17

I have just read the CSP statement. Orwellian.

Goldfish43 · 14/04/2024 22:33

stealtheatingtunnocks · 14/04/2024 21:07

We should screenshot the posts and these replies so we can see what is removed.

im tempted to post lines from the comddy video

Good point-I just screenshotted my post-let’s see if it’s still there tomorrow!

DeepBee · 15/04/2024 18:32

I feel like most of the people also commenting on icsp are also on here! I am really concerned about what is happening. After the Cass report I was feeling much more confident about raising concerns, but now I know the CSP is run by gender ideologues I am not sure I can.

I would like to know more about this trans guidance that Rob is talking about and who will be consulted. Surely they have to seek legal advice before releasing it? I really thought the tide was turning after the cass review, but apparently not!

ickky · 15/04/2024 21:21

I am neither use nor ornament to you Elaine, but I really hope you get SEEN started for all the physios.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 16/04/2024 02:16

Reduxx reported on the WPATH and their eunuch files.
They are watching the CSP? We are as bad as WPATH? Sobering.

RadFiz · 16/04/2024 11:23

I am really quite appalled by the response on the website this morning to a member asking if, as a lone female physio working from home who’s chosen to treat females only, she’d be supported in not accepting trans women as patients. CSP Rob more or less tells her that’s discriminatory and she shouldn't automatically assume trans women are a threat!

stealtheatingtunnocks · 16/04/2024 13:03

He’s not a clinician and clearly doesn’t know about safeguarding. Why is he I charge of this?

GiveHerEffervescence · 16/04/2024 13:14

Radfiz - that was me on iCSP.
I wonder what the CSP would do if a member was abused by a trans woman that they insisted she must see.

VenusEnvyXX · 16/04/2024 14:29

RadFiz · 16/04/2024 11:23

I am really quite appalled by the response on the website this morning to a member asking if, as a lone female physio working from home who’s chosen to treat females only, she’d be supported in not accepting trans women as patients. CSP Rob more or less tells her that’s discriminatory and she shouldn't automatically assume trans women are a threat!

this question has caught my attention, Rad.

I have been harassed and threatened by trans identified males, one of whom organised mass complaints to the HCPC, threatened me with violence in Parliament and threatened to burn my house down.

Does this position statement mean that if that person approached me for an appointment as a lone worker in my home that I would be in breach of my professional guidelines if I refused to see him?

OP posts:
RadFiz · 16/04/2024 16:18

Looks like he’s reached the end of his tether. He’s now saying to contact enquiries if there’s anything we’d like to discuss.

Really, what were they thinking putting that statement out?

Notthebestidea · 16/04/2024 16:32

I would like to highlight the issues faced by female patients in mental health care. I have previously worked with female patients who have been assaulted whilst being treated on psychiatric wards and there are also a significant proportion of women within the mental health system who have experienced past rape or sexual abuse ,which is sometimes the cause of their psychiatric illness. https://rapecrisis.org.uk/news/alarming-scale-of-sexual-violence-and-abuse-on-mental-health-wards/. As the majority of transwomen will never transition and still have their male genitalia I feel there is a clash of rights and I would like the CSP to acknowledge that maintaining protection of rights for biological women are as important as maintaining protection of rights for trans people . Will I be able to advocate for a woman expressing fears about a male bodied transwoman on the unit if I am unable to challenge or question the presence of that transwoman within women only spaces ? We don’t presume that all men are sexual predators but we still acknowledge the need for single sex spaces and I feel we are now being asked to ignore the reasons for single sex spaces.

Alarming scale of sexual violence and abuse on mental health wards

Serious concerns over the safeguarding failures and scale of sexual violence and abuse on mental health wards

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/news/alarming-scale-of-sexual-violence-and-abuse-on-mental-health-wards/

Goldfish43 · 16/04/2024 17:11

OMG I need to stop interacting on the iCSP thread-it’s doing no good for my blood pressure!!
Member 199814 is sending it through the roof-comparing a lone woman choosing not to treat men to being a racist!
I can’t believe the CSP has sunk so low 😢

RadFiz · 16/04/2024 17:14

Goldfish43 · 16/04/2024 17:11

OMG I need to stop interacting on the iCSP thread-it’s doing no good for my blood pressure!!
Member 199814 is sending it through the roof-comparing a lone woman choosing not to treat men to being a racist!
I can’t believe the CSP has sunk so low 😢

WTH? Where is Rob with his deleting pen now? Will he let that stand unchallenged?

Goldfish43 · 16/04/2024 17:22

RadFiz · 16/04/2024 17:14

WTH? Where is Rob with his deleting pen now? Will he let that stand unchallenged?

Good point! I’m going to report that comment!