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This forum is for Health Care Professionals including student nurses, junior doctors and adult nurses.

Physiotherapy SEEN

327 replies

VenusEnvyXX · 11/04/2024 19:17

I am concerned about the CSP's position statement on transphobia and want to explore whether members think the CSP would benefit from having it's own SEEN.

If you're not familiar with SEENs, they are a balance to the LGBTQIA+ groups, can be formally recognised and eligible for funding on an equal footing as other network groups. They exist in civil service, journalism, police, HR, city, and the NHS one is nearly ready to launch.

I do not agree with Rob Yeldham, and previously, Karen Middleton, when they say that physiotherapy has a transphobia issue. If there is evidence of this I have not seen it.

I have been contacted by a number of CSP staff and members, who share my concerns that this announcement misrepresents the law, defames members and manages to be both unnecessary and unclear.

It seems that people who are diametrically opposed to the view that sex is real and immutable are employed by and in positions of power and influence at our trade union. This is absolutely fine, it is important for a trade union to reflect its membership. I am uncomfortable with the views of activists forming policy without due process and debate. I hope to be wrong, but I suspect that might have happened in the formation of this CSP position statement.

It is difficult to speak up about these issues, people are scared of being accused of transphobia, and rightly so, the personal penalties can be high.

If you would be willing to share your views or insights with me anonymously here then I'd be grateful. Alternatively, (and if you are willing to trust that I am who I say I am!):
email - [email protected]
substack - @venusenvyxx
twitter - @gussiegrips

I am proud to have had a long career in physio and it seems to me that this is little more than a training and communication issue, which, like sex, is not complicated.

bests
Elaine Miller

Position statement on transphobia

We recognise that, like other forms of discrimination, the understanding of the manifestations of transphobia will evolve. We will need to update our position in light of experience and learning, as and when appropriate. This statement will therefore b...

https://www.csp.org.uk/about-csp/equity-diversity-belonging/position-statement-transphobia

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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RadFiz · 11/05/2024 18:43

munsbit · 11/05/2024 13:51

They appear to have taken down the LGBTQ page on the CSP website. The Twitter account is still active but the page link on the Twitter account says ‘loading error’. The how to be an ally information appears to have changed again (no mermaids mention that I can see). And the page that’s behind the login screen tells me I don’t have access even after logging in.

interesting.

The page is still there and I can see it when I click from the rainbow Twitter account.

LouisaGuy · 13/05/2024 10:47

Seriestwo · 11/05/2024 17:33

This makes sense, @Bosky Our EDB committee is so diverse it’s got a paramedic on it. Why? Is there a physio giving insights to the paramedic body? Maybe I’m cynical but I assumed this person has the “right think” and will vote in the “right way” - but surely a member of a committee be a member of the body?

A paramedic who isn't a CSP member in the committee makes zero sense to me. Surely it should be a basic requirement to be a physio or associate physio

Anklesprainssuck · 26/05/2024 09:24

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html
Wonder if the CSP would support members in this senario, especially now that they have rolled out the trial of EDI CSP reps (mine has attended all the CSP training and would likely say -be inclusive…)
We use open plan locker rooms where I work and have always been weary of this situation.

Nurses made to share changing room with trans colleague to sue NHS

In a formal complaint, the nurses say they were stunned after the 'sexually active' trans nurse admitted to trying for a baby with a female partner and had stopped taking female hormones.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

VivaVivienne123 · 26/05/2024 10:33

Anklesprainssuck · 26/05/2024 09:24

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html
Wonder if the CSP would support members in this senario, especially now that they have rolled out the trial of EDI CSP reps (mine has attended all the CSP training and would likely say -be inclusive…)
We use open plan locker rooms where I work and have always been weary of this situation.

Edited

You beat me to it! Was also going to post this article. I seem to remember from the iCSP chat (before it was closed) that this question was asked and that the answer from Rob Yeldham was for a desire for changing facilities to be trans-inclusive. Such poor insight from the CSP 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Bosky · 26/05/2024 15:17

VivaVivienne123 · 26/05/2024 10:33

You beat me to it! Was also going to post this article. I seem to remember from the iCSP chat (before it was closed) that this question was asked and that the answer from Rob Yeldham was for a desire for changing facilities to be trans-inclusive. Such poor insight from the CSP 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Or to put it another way, "the answer from a man was for a desire to force a woman to get undressed in a confined space with a man who is also half-naked".

Anklesprainssuck · 28/05/2024 22:00

Just a reminder of the SEEN in healthcare is up and running. You can follow, but need an NHS email to do so.
https://seeninhealth.org/

SEEN In Health

SEEN in Health

https://seeninhealth.org/

munsbit · 31/05/2024 21:37

Update on the complaint.

I received an email today with the CSP’s final response to my complaint. They had a meeting with the LGBT committee leader (and author of the offending tweet). The committee leader was asked to take down the tweet. They have declined to take it down, they don’t admit any wrong doing and they will not apologise. The CSP person I was dealing with claims that they have no authority to force the committee to take down the tweet as the language used is in line with their transphobia policy.

I am currently considering my response. I think it needs pointing out that firstly this isn’t about a trans policy as I am not trans and that is not the basis of my complaint. I also wonder about mentioning the recent findings of unlawful harassment in cases where people raising concerns about sex based rights are accused of transphobia.

I shall mull it over. Wish it was better news! But it seems the CSP is content to bury its head in the sand!

Anklesprainssuck · 01/06/2024 08:51

Thank you for your time and effort.

It would be interesting to know who was pushing for the Transphobia statement in the first place and if the CSP have the balls to reverse ferret ….

RadFiz · 03/06/2024 22:07

Here’s the list of council candidate. No indication of what any of them think of the new trans policy though https://secure.cesvotes.com/V3-2-0/csp/en/home?bbp=68680&x=-1

RoobarbAndMustard · 04/06/2024 11:45

RadFiz · 03/06/2024 22:07

Here’s the list of council candidate. No indication of what any of them think of the new trans policy though https://secure.cesvotes.com/V3-2-0/csp/en/home?bbp=68680&x=-1

Edited

If you read their personal statements it may give clues. At least 2 mention EDI, for example.

RadFiz · 04/06/2024 13:22

Well yes, but they could be referring to EDI with regards to racism or disability discrimination. I hope…

munsbit · 04/06/2024 18:20

i looked up some of the Twitter profiles. Most that mention EDI have pronouns in their bio.

RadFiz · 05/06/2024 14:51

munsbit · 04/06/2024 18:20

i looked up some of the Twitter profiles. Most that mention EDI have pronouns in their bio.

I just looked them all up on Twitter. Two I couldn’t find but out of those I could, only two had their pronouns on their bio. And only one of those two mentions EDI in her statement.

munsbit · 12/06/2024 09:01

I didn't expect to be posting (yet) another update on my complaint, but here we are!

I responded to the CSP, and said that I didn't think I could continue as a member. The reason that I gave was that I felt that I should be able to be confident that my trade union would support me in advocating for sex based rights in the event of a hypothetical workplace dispute.

Their response? Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Or words to that effect.

I'm putting this here as I think it's important that we are all aware as physios that CSP trade union support is not a given in standing up for sex based rights, and so we can all make an informed decision about where we spend our hard earned cash on union fees!

Anklesprainssuck · 12/06/2024 18:25

Thank you for update, sounds like a pretty shitty response but not surprised.

The CSP Council Election papers have dropped on the door step- will spend time going through them and anyone with pronouns will be the bottom of the ranking , irrespective if they may be naive as to what they represent.
I know of one who uses pronouns in their work email signature.

The content of their statement and the emphasis on the profession and clinical care will be getting my top spots.

Perfectchaos1986 · 20/09/2024 09:27

Thank you for this Elaine. I’m a bit late to the party but have been in a maternity leave blur / head in the sand for the last few months. I’m an MSK physio (with a bit of WH included) and I have huge concerns over the CSP statement and I think it puts any “gender critical” physios in a vulnerable position. Not sure I can be of much use re: SEEN but would be happy to help if I can.

RadFiz · 20/09/2024 11:26

Yet whoever this guy is, he thinks the CSP are transphobic! Just how much further does he think they need to go? They've already said TWAW.
https://x.com/simondunphy2/status/1834171833102303690

Anklesprainssuck · 30/10/2024 18:44

Looks like UNISON are getting a bit of push back after the latest X post by their president ( male if that is relevant) ( who has subsequently restricted their X account).
How any Union can’t understand the need for single sexed changing rooms for staff is beyond me.
https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1851392515913724320?s=46

x.com

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1851392515913724320?s=46

Anklesprainssuck · 30/10/2024 19:00

A screen shot of one of his X posts. The daily mail article was about the Darlington Nurses who wanted single sex changing rooms.

Physiotherapy SEEN
Bosky · 01/11/2024 05:26

"In our Year of LGBT+ workers, I stand, as UNISON President with the trans community!" ✊🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️

What does he sound like?? 😂🤣

"In our Year of the Lord, I stand, as Robin Hood, with the Merry Men in Tights of Lincoln Green community!" ✊🩲🧔‍♀️

GiveHerEffervescence · 16/04/2025 19:39

Woohoo! Thank you Supreme Court for following science and common sense.

VivaVivienne123 · 17/04/2025 06:53

I wrote to the CSP yesterday asking them to amend their policies now that the definition of woman in the equality act has been clarified

RadFiz · 17/04/2025 15:26

VivaVivienne123 · 17/04/2025 06:53

I wrote to the CSP yesterday asking them to amend their policies now that the definition of woman in the equality act has been clarified

Would love to know what their response is. Their LGBT network had this to say, but I don't think they officially represent the organisation https://x.com/csplgbtqia/status/1912583337589305542

VivaVivienne123 · 17/04/2025 17:26

RadFiz · 17/04/2025 15:26

Would love to know what their response is. Their LGBT network had this to say, but I don't think they officially represent the organisation https://x.com/csplgbtqia/status/1912583337589305542

The response says they’re taking some advice and so cannot comment fully now but “our initial view is that there is unlikely to be any impact on our advice overall”.
in addition: “In relation to single sex services, the CSP advises that services should be Trans inclusive as a matter of policy rather than law.” - that doesn’t sound very sensible from a legal perspective to me
i think we’ll need to wait to see the updated guidance to see if it stands up. It wasn’t a great reply tbh but then the responses on the icsp chat a while back were pretty dire and it’s the same team 🤷🏻‍♀️