Fair split of household items

[Totallyaddictedtoshoes]

I’m just wondering if if is normal to have to value every single item in the household? I’ve been given a list including ridiculous things such as cleaning products, cutlery, Tupperware and smoke alarms. My ex left the family home 15 months ago after his affair. I had thought the sensible way forward would be to discuss who wanted what when it comes to furniture etc, that everything else would just be divided or disposed of, but no, I’ve been told I have to itemise everything and value it so that if one party has things of more value, they pay the other party the difference. He is classifying my jewellery (including items given to me pre marriage and nothing of any significant value) as “household items” and expects me to reimburse him for them. There will also be a great number of items not needed or wanted by either party, so I’m not sure what happens in this case. I don’t actually want the jewellery so I am perfectly happy to tell him to take it, but I suspect he is simply wanting my “pot” to be worth more so he can demand cash. I’ve never known anything like it! Any advice as to whether this is proportionate or reasonable and how to shut it down would be appreciated as it just seems like nonsense to me.

For clarity, this isn’t for form e purposes, it’s his proposal on how to fairly decide how to divide household contents as part of our consent order…..so i presume if the table I want is worth £20 less than the one he wants, he can have 10 forks to make up the value………😂🤦🏼‍♀️because everything has to come down to money with this man.

He has a solicitor whereas I am litigant in person and we are hoping to go down the d81 route as opposed to court. We have exchanged form e voluntarily, there were no items worth over £500 as I already had the few bits of wedding jewellery I have valued just in case. I am honestly flabbergasted by this behaviour, he earns in excess of 150k a year and has our daughter 6 nights a month. Pays the legal minimum CMS and even bought the rights she asked him to buy on prime as she needed them fast, on the joint account. I had just spent £200 on school uniform, shoes, pe kit and period swimwear so she could comfortably go away with him and his mistress.

This seems like madness to me, but I don’t know the best way forward to shut it down. Any advice appreciated

It’s absolutely not normal and your jewellery isn’t “household items” any more than his watch or other personal items are.

Personally I would accept the expense of a lawyer to come up with a reasonable proposal as an alternative.

My alternative proposal is exactly what I had assumed was normal - we each identify any specific things we want or need and divide/dispose of the rest. It comes down to the jewellery and always has. He never believed the resale value was as low as it was therefore not needing form e declarations (I had 2 valuations, nothing was over £500) so he is taking it out on me this way. He seems to think this is a genuinely sane idea, he has stated he has had to buy cleaning products since moving out after his affair and therefore thinks the stuff in the home should be part of the valuation. Note, he has taken a great many items from the family home, sofabed, tv, nespresso machine, all the tools,all the garden equipment etc yet none of these appear on his inventory. Nor for his own wedding ring or expensive watch. I’m just at breaking point at this stage 😢

I’d produce a sensible list of big items and just not include the silly stuff. You don’t have to do what he says anymore.

he has taken a great many items from the family home, sofabed, tv, nespresso machine, all the tools,all the garden equipment etc yet none of these appear on his inventory

Add these to his inventory.

Okay, don’t involve a lawyer, just state the above in a formally worded letter. If he insists on splitting everything down to the smallest items, it needs to be an exact accounting.

You will expect all of the items he has already removed from the house, along with his personal accessories to be included.

As it has been a long period of time since he moved out, taking an undocumented number of items, there will need to be a formal inspection and documentation of the items in his new home for accounting purposes. He will have to provide proof of purchase for all new items or they will be assumed to have been taken from the marital property and therefore form part of shared property.

My now ex-wife moved out of the property at the start of the seperation. We still need to sell the house and split the funds received as per the signed settlement agreement. Her solicitor drew up the settlement agreement and added one line in the middle that states that for possessions, whoever has possession of an item at the time of signing the agreement has ownership. I don't think my ex-wife bothered reading it when she signed, but I think it was the Solicitors way of resolving the split of posessions without being dragged back into petty arguments.

You don’t have to do what he says. Your jewelry is yours as are your clothes etc. The crappy cleaning stuff? He can have them! Frankly I wouldn’t want anything bar a few paintings if I shared my house with someone I was divorcing. Furniture tools white goods cutlery - if he wants it he can deal with removing it, and can reimburse you.

Don't pander to him. Reply saying all gifts including jewellery is legally yours, that he is welcome to cleaning items if he is financial difficulty and that you won't be chasing him for the following items he has already taken (then list). Suggest he is welcome to make a list of the items he is concerned about for you to consider. The one thing I would do is to suggest mediation to help divide house contents. There will be local mediators, look them up and suggest a couple of names. They're quite expensive but will be helpful.

You must be so glad that this relationship is over, he sounds awful!
If it helps, I can tell you that the value of used household items is minimal - if you tried to sell them you’d be lucky to get a few hundred pounds for the lot. How exactly does he expect these items to be valued?
Meanwhile, your clothes jewellery and personal items are your own, not shared property. If you include their value in an inventory, then his personal items would of course have to go in an inventory as well, along with the items he has already taken. But he is playing silly buggers.
Im wondering, if there is still a joint account that he accessed to pay for things for DD, why aren’t you paying for her stuff from that account?

Things like tupperware and cutlery have zero value. Even furniture is basically zero unless you're talking about very high end and/or antique.

It’s absolutely not normal and your jewellery isn’t “household items” any more than his watch or other personal items are
This is actually incorrect. They are assets of the marriage.

£500 is what the court regards as reasonable. I'd stick to that.

erm…he has left, gone, abandoned the castle! now he is coming back
to raid the castle with his itemised list for you the Chatelaine packing
everything up neatly including your jewellery ?!? which he may want
to adorn another’s pretty neck forsooth
this is a power and control move, employing the battering ram
however you can view with disdain from the battlements which are
considerably higher than his lowly claim

also, possession is 9/10 of the law

Thank you all for your comments. I genuinely dont understand why he is being so penny pinching given his salary and the fact he was entirely responsible for the breakdown of the family. But we are where we are. I dont intend to agree to the proposed methodology, I will make it quite clear that it seems disproportionate and unnecessary, whilst welcoming that he can add all the items removed from the property including his own personal possessions and invite him to undertake his own valuation process should he deem it necessary.

I have no intention of keeping the jewellery, I haven’t worn it since the day I found out about his affair. He won’t want it either, so we will be at stalemate as he just wants the money for it. He pushed and pushed for it to be added to my form e assets despite me having had it valued by 2 independent jewellers and none of the items came to over £500. I do believe from the research I have done that the ring, bracelet and earrings given to me as Christmas/birthday gifts before the marriage should not even be called into question, realistically he is going after my eternity ring, bought for £1200, “valued for insurance purposes” at £1800 (he took the certificates when he moved out) but valued by the jeweller at £485. So we really aren’t talking of silly numbers here.

To answer @DelphiniumBlue yes I am extremely glad to be out of this relationship, he is quite frankly awful. The reason I didn’t buy the uniform etc on the joint account is because I knew I would be told “that’s what maintenance is for”and I quite honestly couldn’t be arsed with the row. He resents maintenance as it’s high (legal minimum though), because he earns well and hardly has DD, so whilst I know that he should provide uniform for the 1 weeknight he has her, I just don’t feel like it’s worth lowering myself to ask for anything.

We have nothing of any resale worth in the house, it’s very clear he is intending to say he doesnt want anything bar a few items and therefore expect to be able to bill me for the rest. So my intention is to ask for the bed, one of the sofas, the fridge freezer and a tv (our daughters things are her own, he has at least agreed that) and ask him to arrange removal and payment for all other items prior to the house sale. Or, maybe we act like normal, sensible people and actually discuss needs and wants regarding household items…….

That's all impossibly petty! The first meeting I had with my solicitor she told me a story about a client of theirs that had them writing letters about a blender. Solicitor letters are expensive to get them to send, massively exceeding how much it would have been to just buy a new blender.

The point of them telling me that was to get the point across that some things aren't worth fighting about, but your Ex seems to have missed that memo. As people have stated up above, there's very little value in normal furniture, household appliances.

But do you really have to give him the money for everything in the house? When I divorced we just split everything and took half each, the only thing that we got valued to be taken into consideration were our pensions and cars.

Can you propose a split of things? i.e you suggest you keep this couch and he is welcome to come and pick up that couch. He can keep the nespresso machine and you keep the air fryer/george foreman/blender, or whatever is roughly the same value. Remember things like household tools aren't his either, why should he get all the lawnmower and power tools?

As for your jewellery? I was under the impression personal items werent up for grabs the way that household things like coffee machine, lawnmowers, tv's and appliances are?. But just point out he can keep his watch and you can keep your jewellery, even if you go on to sell them. Things like that rarely get sold for what they are valued at.

I'd say he's welcome to the cleaning products, if he's really that hard up he can come and pick up all the half used stuff!!

I do understand that setting up a new home costs money, my god I know the price of replacing loads of small things, like loo brushes, brooms, paint brushes etc that I didn't take when I moved out, but I've made my peace with that and view it as that's the cost of my sanity

I wonder why it is that a person who causes so much damage, thinks its reasonable to demand a 'fair' share of the spoils of family life? I was in a similar situation very recently. I was instructed by my now ex-husband to value all items. He also wanted money from me even though I was a newly single parent to his two children. He too earns way more than me and has the boys 2 nights per month. Minimum maintenance payments.
He kindly explained in his email that this was normal practise and suggested by his solicitor. This is in fact...BS! As a previous poster said, most households contents is worthless to others unlesss its antique or designer stuff.
I just refused and instead itemised furniture and divided equally eg. A table for him and a table for me. He had the BBQ, I had the garden furniture etc. He couldn't argue with it as it was done fairly. The best bit was he clearly didn't want any of it and his lot when on marketplace by the end of the week. He didn't get much for it!
Your jewellery is not up for grabs. I would avoid getting drawn into petty squabbles and just be clear about the fact you will need to keep a home to accommodate your daughter which will need furniture.
It's probably not going to help how you feel right now but he sounds like a terrible man. Good luck😊

Here’s a fair way to avoid money changing hands for the house contents. It was suggested by a family court judge during acrimonious proceedings:

1. Put high value items in form e, and handle those in the formal property split (keep in mind that the value to be considered is current value not purchase price)

2. draw up a detailed inventory of everything else that you want to divide fairly. (Tell him he can have anything else not on the list provided he collects it on a mutually agreed date before X date.) The inventory needs 3 columns: item number; description; initials of future owner. The inventory will have as many rows as you need to list the items to be split fairly, and it can include the things that he already took to his place if you’d like them to be part of a fair division of contents. He doesn’t get to assume they are his because he took them. Each of you gets to brainstorm what items should be part of the inventory to be fairly divided. If you have pets, sadly they may need to go on the inventory if you can’t decide who they should live with. Once you’re both confident that the inventory includes everything you care to split fairly that is not being dealt with through form e….

3. flip a coin to decide who picks first. Then take it in turns to choose one thing off the inventory until all the items are chosen.

4. When all items have been initialled in column 3, that’s the split done. If you forgot to include it in the inventory - too bad. If it’s in his house it’s his; if it’s in yours it’s yours.

Notice that you don’t have to agree the current value of the items. If he thinks the jewellery is worth £400 - he can pick it early, sell it and keep the proceeds. If you think it’s worth £100, pick other items with your turns. Each of you might find that there are items which have sentimental or practical value for one of you but not the other. The person who values it highly will choose it sooner. If you can be bothered selling it on ebay, then you might decide to choose something with high resale value despite the fact that you don’t plan to keep it. That’s fine.

After all has been allocated, there will be things that you wish you could have picked but he picked before you. The same will be true for him! And if you want - you can offer a trade. But neither of you is obliged to trade.

Take care with the inventory. That’s the time consuming part.

Note that you can cluster things as a single item: eg one row could be “household cleaning items currently in the utility room”. Similarly you could put “6 white dining chairs” and “dining table” on separate rows with separate item numbers or you could have one row/item number for “dining table and 6 matching dining chairs”. It doesn’t matter - because you will each get an equal number of turns to choose.

Familiarise with the Inventory before you pick, so you don’t forget to use your turns to choose the things you care about.

Alternate picking takes hardly any time at all. It’s simply : [him] I pick Item 18; [you] I pick Item 107; [him] I pick Item 4; [you] I pick Item 52 ….. until all is done. Don’t forget to initial the item in column 3. If there could be any disagreement about who picked what - record the meeting, and/or have someone present as a witness. Sign and date the Inventory at the end of The Pick.

If you get to a point where there’s nothing else on the inventory that you care about - just say to him that he can initial the rest.

No money changes hands.

I probably could have described this in about 2 sentences. Too late now!

Lawyer up.
It very expensive not to have a lawyer.
Many solicitors will give you initial free or very cheap consultation where they'll inform you about funding.
You don't want to get distracted with some petty items and ignore your and your child's housing.

Thank you all again for your responses. I haven’t actually felt the need to get a solicitor @Betterversionofmebecause when it has come down to it, everything he argued has ended up being dropped, because he was either misunderstanding the legal requirements, or was simply asking for silly things. I’m asking for nothing more than 50/50 regarding money/pensions/equity. It’s the idiocy he kept coming up with which was driving me nuts. But I held my nerve and stood my ground. He has now conceded to everything because it was legally correct. So I suspect this silly household inventory nonsense is an attempt to punish me. I have made it very clear to his solicitor that I will not be participating in this exercise now, suggesting that we proceed as sensible people would, by identifying items we want/need in order to keep a home for our daughter. I have also made it clear that if there are any specific items of jewellery he wants, he is to identify them and he is welcome to have them, but I will not participate in a disproportionate exercise valuing items made up from a household built over 23 years. I have also pointed out all the items he has taken from the house, none of which appear on his itinerary. If his solicitor wishes to argue, it’s just more expense to him and if they continue to insist this is a normal procedure, he is welcome to come to the house and value all the Tupperware etc

I am concerned that

1. he is petty
2. does he lie? can his word be trusted even if it will cost him? (did he cheat?)
3. He earns in excess of £150k, can go for holidays, yet you even remember £200 expenditure for your child's necessities. Seems like your income is very unequal.
4. Make sure that he can't sell from or remortgage your home behind your back. Seriously. Register your interest with land registry if needed. Concept exists because it is needed.
5. Builders build everyday whole day, they are better in it than you. Carpenters are better in carpentry than you. Car mechanics are better in checking and fixing cars. Lawyers spend whole day, every day, doing their job. They studied it for years. They'll approach whole situation professionally, help you keep less emotional. What you are going through now will have big impact on you and your child. One of biggest events in your life. How many times in your life are you going divorce? It's actually very unfair towards your child if you don't get a lawyer. You are not being nice, or careful with money. It's like 'stitch in time saves nine'. It can speed, smooth and make whole process cheaper for you.

He is petty, he insisted the tights our daughter wanted which cost £15 came out of the joint account.

Yes he cheated. He is a liar and he betrayed me many times even after his affair was exposed. Which was apparently my fault as I accessed his emails to find the evidence and have been accused of “illegal behaviour” despite him having left the family iPad open to access this information.after weeks and weeks of lies and betrayals since I received a letter from his affair partner’s husband (who is also apparently a dreadful person who caused me so much damage to my marriage for sending it-from the affair partner, she sent me an apology email 15 hours after I was dumped by email after a 23 year relationship…)

With his bonuses he earns about 4 times more than me. I have a good salary and I do not want to make any attempt to make any claim on him, hence me buying the uniform etc.

i get the 6 monthly alerts from the land registry, funnily enough, I got one yesterday. We own the house as joint tenants so he can do nothing without my consent.

My attitude towards solicitors remains the same. I spoke with 4 at the beginning, I know that due to my own salary I won’t have a needs based case to fight for more than 50/50. I have no interest in doing so. My intention was to wait for their proposed consent order and then take that to a solicitor to fact check it. What I was not expecting was this protracted argument regarding household contents which basically revolves around my jewellery. It’s a couple of rings we paid £2k for 15 years ago, yet he will not let it go. Hence my approach being that he can have them if he wants. He doesn’t, he just wants the money…..

He sounds like a horrible person and you must be relieved you are ending your marriage to him. Life will get easier without him. Tell him he can come over and take a spray bottle of furniture cleaner and some dusters if he wants it. Your jewellery from before you married are yours. Your clothes are yours. You need to insist on pension sharing. If he's a high earner he'll have loads in his pension. Whatever he tries to take from you in tiny items you can hit back by asking for pension sharing.