He offered to draw down his pension to buy me out

[Seriestwo]

He is offering to draw down his pension to “give me enough so you can buy a house”.

He is offering this so he can reduce his worth, isn’t he?

Married 23 years, 2 adult kids, one at uni. I was at home with them for years, have no pension. There’s equity in the house which he wants to keep so is offering to buy me out via his pension pot.

i have no idea how much he has financially, he has kept me away from all knowledge of finances. I don’t even know where our utilities are. Basically, I am shafted and he can hide whatever money he likes .

Im right to be suspicious, right?

Well as we don’t know the value of marital assets nor earnings or ages it’s impossible to say if this is a good or bad deal

he may be trying to rip op off. Or he might be trying to see her housed and this is one way to achieve that

op isn’t automatically entitled to more than 50% and being sahm for years doesn’t necessarily lead to that outcome either. It will depend on the first part of this post.

posters can’t state factually whether it’s good or bad or what % op will be entitled to

op needs a solicitor and the valuations of assets then can make an informed decision

Thanks all.

I’ll speak to a solicitor. I didn’t want to be in this position but it’ll be ok. I’m perfectly resourceful and not as daft as he possibly thinks I am.

Sounds like a man with a ‘big job’ who thinks his wife’s role is so easy but would never want to do any of it themselves…

Well, here's what the women of mumsnet say....

I'll bet you won't find a thread anywhere on the internet with an equivalent number of men waxing lyrical about how they spend their days 'pursuing their hobbies'.

My sil is 44, rich and has NEVER had a job, lucky her! She has no trouble filling her day and has a great life.

Dp earns the money then gives it to me. Why would I feel oppressed?

I haven't worked in 8 years and bloody love it! I got to go shopping without ds today and have a long lunch with a friend. Going to the gym now.

My friend is married to the son of a billionaire and sometimes I have to block her on social media because her life is one long holiday.

I dont work, I was able to be a sahm with my sons, both in 30s now. I lunch, dressmake, walk my dogs for miles, spend time with friends and family etc....
I also volunteer for a small homeless charity, something I am so passionate about, being literally close to home.
I feel totally fulfilled!

My DSis married a very high earner and has never worked a day in her life.

My DH works 80 hours a week for a signficant amount of money, which allows me to be a SAHM and indulge myself, allow me to do all of my volunteering and my hobbies.

I work just a few hours a week in a job I love doing, I don’t have to work for financial reasons. I’ve accidentally ended up with a really high earning DH. I enjoy having lots of time to myself, I have hobbies, an amazing spa membership and an extremely fortunate to have some really good friends whom I’m able to see nearly every week.

My SIL is lucky enough to not have to work due to DB’s income. She has nice things, goes out for lots of lunches.

I'm a SAHM who has teenage children and is fortunate to be married to a high earner so I haven't needed to work since having kids. We do have a lifestyle that most people would find impressive.

I choose not to work. DH works really long shifts and odd hours so can be out of the house either days or nights, with each week being different. When the kids are grown I'll go and get some post-sahm work. Maybe in a shop, factory, cafe or something similar.

The funniest post was Monday morning when she started by posting “it’s going to be a long week, hoping the nanny isn’t late” followed by “anyone know a place I can get nails done, not happy with the place I’ve been going as I think they overcharge and wanting a day to pamper myself a bit.”

I feel lucky that I don't need to work. I am not getting any benefits because dh earns enough.

I'm lucky in that I didn't have to carry on working.

I am lucky enough not to work and stay at home with my son, as DH is a high earner. I feel extremely grateful for this every day, and try very hard not to take it for granted.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3764425-To-think-you-are-very-lucky-if-you-dont-have-to-work

@GaIadriel I was posting hoping for advice relevant to my situation, which PPs have been generous enough to give me.

Would you mind starting your own thread if you want to explore whether, well, what is your point, whether women like me are freeloaders?

cheers.

It depends how much of a fight you want to have, OP.
If he's a high earner, he may have a lot of savings too. Mine did - much more than I was aware of.
I never thought I'd end up divorced either, but I'm going through this right now, and my solicitor has categorically told me that courts consider a sahm's non-financial contributions to the marriage are equal to the breadwinning husband's.
Starting point is 50% of the assets - this includes the house, savings/investments & pensions, even if they are his name.
You have made a career sacrifice to raise a family, and this is recognised - there is established case history that the sahp is entitled to more than 50% of marital assets, due to career sacrifice and reduced potential earning capacity/pension pot as a result of this.
I suspect you husband knows this, so is trying to come up with an "easy" agreement to stop you looking deeper into the marital assets you're entitled to. And yes, possibly trying to shaft you.
It is not the case that he 'just has to get you housed' - in a long marriage such as yours, you get at least 50% of all the marital assets.
Most people try settle out of court, obviously, to keep legal fees to a minimum, but it is worth knowing what a court might award you, and having a solicitor on your side to negotiate a proper settlement and give you future financial security.
My ex-husband would have totally tried to shaft me - he genuinely believes I should not even have 50% because I didn't earn it. Thankfully, the law doesn't agree with him. He's very bitter that I got a solicitor and didn't take his first pathetically low financial settlement offer and moans to our 17yr old DD that "Mum's trying to get everything she can in the divorce" (!)
Damn right I am - but it's just my fair share.

That is interesting. I told him a long time ago I’d be going for what I am entitled to, which is 50%. He argued that he had put more cash into the house so that would be taken into account - and he has shares and savings accounts which are in my name but I have no access to.

Im not looking for revenge - I married the fucker, the mistake was mine. But I am not looking for poverty either.

he is driven by saving face. He wants to be seen as respectable. I am much less concerned about that!

It’s certainly not a given that a sahm will be awarded greater than 50%

it will depend on many factors, not least of all the total
assets in the pot and whether reasonable needs can be provided with 50% as well as length of marriage and ages of both parties.

op may be entitled to 50% but also could be more or less. And none of us here can possibly know.

I'm assuming a very long marriage as OP has adult children. Also from the OP, he is a high earner, there is equity in the house, savings and a pension. So yes, she will be entitled to at least 50% of these assets.
Re. him putting more money into the house - he would only have an argument if it was money he had before the marriage, eg from an inheritance or earnings before. If it was was money he earned during the marriage, OP still gets an equal share.
I am not a lawyer - so do get a good solicitor - but I'm going through a very similar situation, and have had a lot of legal advice on this.

My high earning ex "D"H tried a similar tactic with me - but tried to give me the house, while he kept his massive pension and savings, and even tried to make out I would end up owing him a lump sum. He's hilarious.

We nearly made it to 25 years. One kid still at uni. The others live with us, one is early career and saving for a deposit, the other has set up a business.

I think I will suggest I move out to a nearby renter flat. He can transfer a sum to cover
deposit and sundries. Then I’ll apply for UC and look for more work hours.

i feel practical but not upset. It is inevitable, he left me years ago but we just cohabitated and I tried to get him to engage which pushed him further away. Gradually he increased his neglect of the marriage and me. It is sad, I thought we would be happy.

im looking at my house and thinking of the things I will miss, and of the things I will not. Bittersweet.

It doesn’t really matter how he liquidises assets to fund your portion of the asset split-as long as he does.

after all, he needs to get the cash to buy you out of the house somehow right?

what I think you are suggesting is that he wants to reduce his pension asset so he’s worth less. But he’s not, he’s just giving you some of your share. The value of the martial asset base is still the same.

you should both leave the marriage in similar states. 50:50 is the starting point but not really. For example, and this is not comment on the value of your caring responsibilities, he’s likely to have sacrifice some of the assets he funded to “set you up” in a property.

You are likely be expected to fund that going forward (you will likely be expected to work)

you need to see a solicitor to clarify, but you are unlikely to need to use one to take him to court for financial settlement - that is a very expensive last resort.

Mediators can help you agree a split which reflects the outcomes you’d get in front of a judge. If you’re both reasonable you can agree that. If one party insists they want to go in front of a judge, the assets start depleting to pay for it.

Agreed. I have a SAHP and have very recently had legal advice that 50:50 would be expected and it’s uncommon for the divorce to not be a clean break now.

where you could argue it’s not really 50:50 is that, for example I may be expected to fund more of his new house because he can’t raise as much mortgage as me. But at the same time, it’s likely to be a minimal property (ie 2 bed flat) rather than anything resembling the family home.

This is so helpful, thank you all.

I will need some time to repair so sm thinking I will try to fund a 2 bedroom flat near by and not a bedsit. Shit happens, my circumstances are better than most, so there is much to be grateful for.

Don’t skimp on your solicitor, go for one with a good reputation.

Agree with previous posters, you need proper legal advice, but to do this you need to know full value of house, pensions, savings etc. I would also want to have access to the savings that are in your name, you need to know, presumably he has access to your bank accounts in your name.

You don’t need this to have a discussion with a solicitor at all! The solicitor isn’t going to be slicing up the pot for you, just advising you of the process and what a good outcome looks like.

Don’t do anything (especially moving out) until you’ve had advice from a solicitor.

It sounds like he wants to split house equity 50:50 and keep everything else… he must have savings, pension etc and you are entitled to those to

It is not so much you need legal advice, you need someone to walk you through the process. He will need to do a statement of finances as will you, if he lies to you (and a solicitor) and hides assets then he is behaving outside the law.
I am not sure I would move out if you can stand to be there.
Have you tried to go through all the paperwork? Does he fill in a tax return for you and him, that is a good starting point as he needs to declare share income.

What about trying to employee a financial PI.

You are not a fool, in fact you are in a great position, you are entitled to 50% of your joint wealth and you are about to lose the deadbeat.

I would not move out of the house. I think you lose power by doing that.
Go and see a solicitor. Go through all the files/paperwork you have to hand. There are some great resources online

Get help | Advicenow
Divorce - getting started | Advicenow
Sorting out your finances when you get divorced | Advicenow
Pensions and divorce | Advicenow

Also OP do just consider- bearing in mind you have no access to finances- that there might be debt too.

You’re right, I don’t know what I don’t know. I can’t access any financial information - he has it all pass worded and controls it all. There is a joint credit card and a single account which holds £500 cash for emergencies. I have my own account for my wages, but I work on the bank so my hours are not regular or set. I earn to pay for holidays and Christmas and nice things.

I never liked this arrangement but there wa no talking to him - he just said “oh yes, we can talk about that, you only have to
aks”. “I didn’t think you were interested” “you never said you wanted to know, of course you can see” - but in 24 ish years we only actually went through things once. That became a fight because he earned twice what I thought he did, an unusual cause for marital disharmony, I suppose.

Thank you for the links @Mangolover123

Don’t beat yourself up. Stuff happens over a long marriage, habits and norms are formed. As the poster above said, you’re actually in a great position and may well walk away being better off day to day than you are now

It sounds like you may need a forensic accountant as he may have lots hidden away considering you don’t know what he has been earning

I haven’t read everyone’s responses but just wanted to let you know that drawing down his pension (I assume he means taking the tax free cash element of his pension pot as it’s the only part he can take without paying tax on the rest) is only 25% of the pension pot.
so if you accepted his tax free cash amount then you are leaving him with 75%! So I would be very suspicious of this grand offer.
Also with the budget coming up lots of peopke are concerned the TFC limits will be reduced and there are also new rules where pensions will be included in people estates for IHT purposes shortly so again he could be offering this payment as it actually will benefit him down the line.
Get a good solicitor and pretty sure you don’t need to know how much he has, just WHERE the assets are kept (have you seen any correspondence from providers and know the company names) as that’s probably more helpful that figures as they can fluctuate if invested. Where I work if someone is subject to a pension sharing order following a divorce the court documents provides a percentage that needs to be transferred to the spouse NOT a monetary amount.

Sounds like there's a long history of him being financially abuse @Seriestwo . All the more reason to lawyer up. I second the comments about not moving out until you've had proper legal advice.