Am I in the wrong for this

[BlueFlash87]

Hi, my ex and I have been split since May. We been just going along with the flow but no legal plan in place at the moment. Proposed a plan once but my ex refused it. Any engagement of custody or visitation schedule ex won't discuss. With our work we know pretty much in advance what our holiday schedules are going to be. Maybe in July or August reached out to my ex about holidays. Again reached out in September. I haven't said much since my ex hasn't answered me back on what holidays she is working. For the most part outside of one holiday the holidays I am off are the days I have the children. Except one holiday I am off falls on the day my ex would have the children. I have the day before. Am I in the wrong for not bringing the children back to my ex the night we are suppose to exchange? I gave my ex a few heads up and more than 30 days in advance notice.

What did your ex say when you gave them the heads up?

Nothing. I mean we been pretty ambicale. If I try to discuss anything related to custody and visitation my ex won't engage in conversation. For the most part won't agree or engage in conversation if I ask to have the children extra day here or if okay take them on vacation. Did over the Summer. Not sure why my ex stopped engaging in these conversations.

So you said, "Just a heads up, I'll be bringing the kids back a day late on X date"

And your ex just didn't respond? Sat in silence? Didn't say no?

I mean, you've given them plenty of notice and they didn't say no. I think you're well within your right to take them back the next day as you've informed them, but obviously I don't know how they're likely to react.

You could remind them when you pick the kids up to cover your back.

Thinking, because I am not sure how my STBX will react. I can't see them withholding the children. To be safe I plan to message them morning after we exchange the children that week give them a heads up mention I will be bringing them back on this day at this time not our original evening of exchange. I explained to them once as a question what holidays are they working. Then explained holidays I am working. I don't know the holidays my ex is working but they know my holidays I am working.

You keep saying your ex won’t engage in conversation about schedules. But you do in fact have an agreed-upon schedule, yes? And what she’s not willing to do right now is engage in conversation with you about her schedule or about flexing the children’s agreed-upon schedule to accommodate various plans?

I’m sorry but she isn’t being unreasonable to want to stick to the agreed on schedule consistently, especially as the DC and both of you are adjusting to change.

And what she’s not willing to do right now is engage in conversation with you about her schedule or about flexing the children’s agreed-upon schedule to accommodate various plans?

This is a great point.

It all comes down to what you mean when you say that they "won't engage in conversation". If you mean they're literally ignoring you, I think you have some room. But if you mean that they aren't willing to discuss changes to the plan that's in place, then they have every right.

More ignore or just will respond with something not related to the question I asked about the schedule. I mean I am at fault for being naive not having any legally binding plan in place.

Tried to engage about holidays and what the schedule was looking like so we can plan accordingly have a clear cut plan what we are doing.

You clearly have an agreed upon schedule, because that’s the only way you could have this problem (“my holiday falls before ‘her’ day to have the kids back”).

You don’t need to know what days your ex has off work or vice versa. The two of you have a schedule and she has made it clear she wants that to consistently be followed.

Arrange your own work schedule or childcare around the care schedule you and your ex have already agreed to and she’ll do the same.

Yes, we agreed once at the seperation what our schedule would be but not holidays we each would have this year with our children.

Just follow the schedule. Look at a calendar and you know when you have your DC this year. You’ve been split for all of 5 months - how many times have you already tried to discuss flexing in that short time?

I would plan for 'handing over' the following day if ex doesn't seem to have an issue with it.

The two of you have a schedule and she has made it clear she wants that to consistently be followed. She hasn't? She's not said anything.

And why should what she wants be the right thing?

Best co-parenting is when there is some come and go, not the kids sticking to a very strict schedule to pacify one parent. It's not an issue unless it's made to be one. Terrible when a parent puts their 'scheduled' time over what's best for their children. If ex was that bothered I'm sure she'd have let you know by now.

Oh come on. Agreeing to a fixed schedule and then consistently refusing to engage in the other person’s attempts to discuss flexing it around their holidays and what extra days they want is obvious communication to anyone who isn’t being willfully obtuse.

OP knows full well that their ex doesn’t want to flex the schedule right now. What they’re claiming to not understand is why she doesn’t want to do that, and they’re asking if it’s ok to just bulldoze along and flex the schedule to what works for them anyways.

The answer is no. You do not need to keep the DC for that one extra day to try to show your ex that refusing to engage with you on this topic won’t be accepted.

Hopefully in the future the two of you will be in a place where you both feel comfortable being flexible and believe that’s in the best interest of the DC. But for right now stop trying to draw your ex into this scheduling dance and just follow what’s been agreed on.

Probably tried to ask my ex for three days with the children on her time. Maybe once or twice your or two earlier. Two days I asked for my children my ex was at work. The third time asked a month or so in advance if I could have an extra day that week wanted to do something with the children that week. My ex never responded to my request and I picked my battle let it be.

Only difference is the days asking for an extra day are holidays. Technically there are two holidays that are an issue. I am going to ask a third time if able to do something jointly with the children on one of the holidays. After that I'll let it be. The other holiday I prefer, that would give me an extra day that week and take away time for my ex that week.

Ok. So you split sometime in May and agreed on a schedule. You said by July or August she had stopped engaging in any attempt to discuss changes to the schedule to fit your plans. Let be generous and say that’s a 12 week span. In the first twelve weeks, during which your ex is trying to establish a new single-parent household and routine and you’re presumably doing the same, you made three separate attempts to change the schedule not for emergencies but just based on what you wanted to do. She reached her limit and wouldn’t engage with it anymore. Since then you’ve tried to get her to share her holiday schedule with you and she wouldn’t, and then you tried to get her to discuss yours and she wouldn’t. Instead she continues to follow the set schedule that you both agreed on. This all seems pretty clear - she doesn’t want to flex the schedule.

You started this question saying she wouldn’t discuss care schedules at all and framed it as you being frustrated because you want to agree on a schedule. But that’s disingenuous- you know exactly when you’re scheduled to have the children and when she is. You repeatedly referred to her days and your days, when when handoff is scheduled, and how it doesn’t perfectly line up with your own holiday schedule. You want her to negotiate changes to the schedule and right now she is not willing to do that. She doesn’t have to, and no that does not give you license to just make unilateral changes to the schedule by refusing to drop off at the agreed time.

If you want more days with your DC that’s lovely. Send her a proposal for a new schedule of fixed days and tell her you want to formally establish a schedule and would be happy to discuss it directly if she’d like before you petition the courts. But whatever the court sets will be a fixed schedule, not one that changes based on what suits you on a given week.

So, you have children with two different ex-partners? If you've only been separated since May, you cannot have asked the current-STBX about holidays a year or two ago.

3 attempts because my ex was at work when she had the children. Asked to take them for an hour or two return them back. Think one day for six or eight hours but would be back two to four hours prior to my ex being home.

Again the days in question aren't days. They are holidays. The other issue is there's no legally binding agreement. Have attempted two to three times to discuss with my ex about the holidays towards the end of July.

The two of you agreed on a schedule. Follow it, or petition the courts for a different one to follow.

As a parent your job is to arrange your work schedule and childcare arrangements around the times when you have your kids. For right now just focus on doing that and respecting your ex doing the same. Hopefully that will lead you both to a better co-parenting relationship down the road.

I think op ex is being unreasonable to not discuss. The best coparenting and child arrangements allow for a degree of flexibility and from here sounds like they’re just being bloody awkward. Agreements can be changed and they need to discuss the holidays! Would drive me mad

I agree that despite your statement that no agreement is in place it is obvious one is in place and you are aware of it. Until or unless you both agree to vary it you should comply, regardless of work schedules.

I see a core problem here for your ex. The amount of times you seem to be contacting her to discuss something agreed and non urgent is intense over a short period of time and there is no compelling reason for it.

You aren’t together anymore and there is no need for you to discuss child care and your work schedules. When she works, how she spends her free time and the arrangements she makes for child care are not your business. She isn’t interested in your work schedule or your days off work.

What this boils down to is you have a free day and want to take the children. But your agreement doesn’t allow for this as this is time she has the children. She will have made arrangements or plans if she is working. Many people will stick to these arrangements because it provides routine and structure.

The only reason you need to contact her is to advise her when you can’t have the children and won’t be picking them up.

Her boundaries are clear. She doesn’t want to interact with you. I don’t know why that is. But you seem intent on ignoring the boundary and creating a confrontation involving the children.

Stick to the arrangement you know you have. If you want to change it then speak to a lawyer about starting proceedings. If you keep on contacting your ex in the way you are doing there is a huge risk she will take legal action to limit contact with you.

Bloody hell im so glad my ex and I never had this level of rigidity in our times with the children.
We always co-parented with the children’s best interest. And that meant a degree of flexibility. Nothing was set by the courts (as it sounds like with the op) and we just, you know, communicated like adults.

if he wanted an extra hour or two, or shock horror, and extra six hours tagged on to the end of a holiday (which is what I think the OP is suggesting!) it never occurred to me to ever let this be a ‘thing’. God, what a load of drama.

her lack of communication would also drive me mad

When you put these changes into a message, do you ask her or tell her?

Many divorced parents I’m around issue orders to the ex partner “I’m busy so you’ll have to pick up the kids” as opposed to “I’ve got stuck at work, would you be able to pick up the kids”.

Did you say “I’d like to book a holiday that…” or “I’ve booked a holiday..,”? One of them is asking and the other is informing about a done deed…

When you talk about the holidays, I'm making a guess that you are in the US and the upcoming holidays are Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year? Perhaps with Halloween thrown in too? If in the UK, we would be thinking about half-term and Christmas holidays coming up.

What exactly are you trying to change, as specifics here could indicate how reasonable your requests are or why she refuses to engage in discussion?

Stick to the plan, don’t deviate, book an extra day, start a day late. This is new, let it settle before asking for favours/variations

More..."What holidays are you working this year?"

Second text a few weeks later - "I am working these holidays this year..."

When I asked for an extra day in the week, originally going into it, would it be okay if I had these X days and you had these X days? I kept it simple, asking something along the lines of, 'Would it be okay if I had X day with the children this week?' If my ex responded, I would iron out any other details.

You need to stop approaching her like this. Her work schedule and plans are none of your business. You know what days you have them. If there is a problem in a particular week from your end you need to let her know when you cannot have them. You can suggest an alternative but if she doesn’t reply assume the status quo.