How is it fair...or is it?

[Amicablecouple]

Hi everyone.

Full disclosure I am a man but a nice one :)

I would REALLY appreciate some advice as to whether this is a fair outcome and what could/can be done.

My soon to be ex-wife and I are in the process of divorcing after 16 years and 3 fantastic children. We have sorted the finances out (although have not quite completed the Consent Order yet as it is not time).

I have been running through our spread sheets for how our finances will look post divorce and it looks as though my wife will have around £1000 a month disposable income and I will have about £150 at best. My income is solely from my wages so after mortgage, household bills, food bill etc are paid this is what I will be left with......not much at all! My take home is around £2600/ month full time but as I am taking a lot less 'cash/'equity' as it is being offset against my pension (we have decided to do this so the kids keep their house but I would be better off if we split house and my pension - my soon to be ex wife does not have a pension). I will have to have a large mortgage to house myself and my 3 children (when they stay). I will only be able to afford a small 3 bedroom house so two children will have to share....another kick for them potentially not wanting to stay at Dad's :(

My ex-wife will have a large 5 bedroom house with large garden, each child with their own room, play room, games rooms etc etc

My Soon to be ex-wife on the other hand takes home £900/month part time but will be claiming UC or £1250/month, Child benefit or £265/month, Child maintenance from me of £450/month (depending on when the children stay with me but it will be around this figure minimum). Total £2865 but will have no mortgage (as she is keeping the house offset against my pension) so after all her household bill are paid she will have over £1000 disposable income.

We both agree that the children staying in the only home they have known if the only and best outcome we can consider as it is already showing that it is helping them massively at the time so they have the security of knowing that other than me moving out a lot of things will stay the same. I know this contributes to leaving me in this position financially. I DO NOT went to sell the house and split the equity as it will be the kids that lose out. This divorce is not their fault so I do not want to impact them any more than I have to.

Does anyone know if (income/living standard) is taken into account for child maintenance and/or Consent Order? I know future earning are in regards to Spousal Maintenance but this is different. Or is there something I am missing or is it a case of suck it up and suffer?!

With only £150 disposable income for me it will be very hard to have a life with the kids let alone thinking about birthdays/Christmas etc.

I am extremely worried that I will be left in a untenable position and that my relationship with the kids will also suffer.

Any help/advice or personal stories would be great appreciated.

Thank you!

Does she have the kids the majority of the time? How old are they
she will presumably also clothe, feed and do all the school stuff out of the income she has (including your contribution) plus childcare / holidays etc
have you had legal advice and was this the suggested outcome?

The only advice I can give is to ask have you seen a solicitor to actually work out if all this is equally fair to you both and come to an arrangement so you can both agree to the financial remedy in a clean break divorce.

She probably will do. My eldest will be 50/50 but the younger two (11 and 12) will probably be with me 2 or 3 nights a week. She also claims Child Benefit for them and always has done. I know this is what CMS use to see who will be the paying and receiving parent.

Does your stbxW agree with you about how much disposable income she'll have? What would she say will be her true 'disposable' income, her budget for holidays or celebrations with the kids or her own non-essential needs?

I think she would agree as it is correct and is what it is. The figure I have given of £1000 disposable takes into account £300 a month saving for car issues (MOT, Tyres, Servicing etc) and also a little towards saving for a holiday. Take these two out and it will be more like £1300 disposable.

You need legal advice unless the children have additional needs then the court would expect her to work full time and assess her mortgage capacity on that basis. Even on parttime wages and other income she has some mortgage capacity so why aren’t you taking some equity to help reduce your mortgage? She won’t be earning much pension on £900 so this is setting up problems for her future too.

I wouldn’t focus on her income as that can change with benefits or different time with each parent and teenagers cost a lot more than you may think. Plus running and maintaining a home that big is costly.

On paper your incomes are similar - it’s the housing cost which is leaving you short.

You could also look at reducing your pension contributions to save money or a longer mortgage term. Or 50:50 with all 3 children so there’s no CM. Or you may find a 2 bed place with 2 receptions where one could be converted into a bedroom (a lot of terraces can be reconfigured this way).

Thank you for your reply.

I can not reduce my pension as it is public sector pension and I can not control it. I have looked into 50/50 care of the children but as she receives the Child Benefit she would still get the child maintenance from me (crazy but that is correct). CSM use who is getting the child benefit to ascertain who is the paying and receiving parent.....regardless of who actually earns more. It is completely feasible for someone who is receiving the child benefit to be earning £150K a year and they still receive child maintenance from their ex partner who is earning £20K a year......CRAZY but TRUE :( The only way to change that would be to get HMRC to change the person receiving the child benefit (they can not split it so at best I would end up with 1 child benefit) but that is a difficult and often fruitless process as you I will have to prove all sorts to even get a hearing never mind a actual fair outcome.

Your issue is your refusal to sell the fmh, that’s what needs to happen as well as your ex taking on ft role. That way house can be sold, she can get mortgage and you can both have adequate housing and living exidn. Your refusal to do this by giving her her house while you retain pension is causing the complete imbalance

sell up, split equity and pension and both move on fairly. Your kids won’t benefit from you being completely skint or in debt at all !

Without knowing the value of the house and the value of the pension its impossible to say if its fair or not. But lets just say they are completely equal.

In terms of income, you are both roughly the same, hers is £2865 and yours £2600. Except she has a lot more child related expenses than you as she will have 2 children 70% of the time - this is assuming you also pay 50% of your oldest child's expenses.

Your ex might have a house but she has no pension, so if she wants to catch up to you paying down another house and continuing to pay into your pension - she will need to pay into a pension at roughly the same as you are paying on your mortgage. She wont be paying interest of course, but then she wont get the employer contributions you get either doing it this way.

So I think it actually is fair, she may look like she has more disposable income now, but if she doesn't save a good chunk of it in a pension, or even an ISA, she is in for an uncomfortable retirement - if she can afford one at all.

You can make this more obvious by splitting the pension value and selling the FMH of course - so if you really think its not fair then thats what you need to do. Frankly the kid will get over it, and its probably better for her as you need to be very disciplined to save what she needs to especially with 3 growing hungry teens.

Well if you want her to stay in the house with the children it looks like this will be the set up. I agree with pp though to get legal advice asap.

I had to sell our home and seriously downsize when I divorced with two small children and my children and I accepted that so I don’t know how fair it is to say that they won’t want to stay with you so much when you have a smaller house. Present it as a positive thing all round!

It sounds like your ex needs to get a small mortgage to provide you some more cash, perhaps in exchange for a small part of your pension…

Yes I think you are right.

I guess therefore I may just have to suck it up and be skint as I really do not want to sell the house as it is helping the children so much knowing that other than Dad moving out and them having two homes (hopefully two homes which will fit us all) not much will change. Keeping their bedrooms as is, garden, Playroom etc etc is worth being skint for a good few years.

I guess it is my/our decision but I know that if I tried to speak to my Soon to be ex-wife about selling the house to allow for more fairness going forward she would be dead against it and would say that I am selfish and only thinking of myself. She said last week that she would live in a 2 bedroom house so that the kids could keep their main house. I did call her bluff on it and said that I would buy the house (obviously I can not afford to) and she backtracked and said why should she have to move out as she was 'Mum' as if that means more than being 'Dad'.....she however thinks that Mum trumps Dad. I do everyything she does for the children and always have done. We have been VERY much 50/50 in looking after them (cooking, cleaning, doctors etc etc) Ultimately I will have to suck it up and make the sacrifices for the kids I guess.

When me and exh divorced he claimed cb for 2 dc and I claimed for 1. Isn't cms based on how many overnights the nrp has the dc? .. Make that 50/50. No cms paid either way...

I think this is the key thing. She might have more income, but she's going to have to put serious work into saving for her retirement. ALso, while the mortgage might be paid off, her costs with th echildren more often, bigger house etc, will be higher.

You also have a short term impact but more long term benefits.

I thin that while this is going to be tough for you for a while so I see why you're questioning it, overall, it probably is fair.

Pension investments and mortgage equity are not considered equal in divorce, you need proper advice to what is fair. Also whilst keeping the house is the gut instinct, I do think you should consider that you need more equity

If you have chosen not to sell the fmh and you have more pension vs her more equity then yes this is the result.

it’s not fair but it is a result of your decision.

You have the pension, it sounds vaguely fair because you are equal in total (presumably), with a huge timing difference.

The timing difference is entirely up to you, to remove it would mean selling the house and splitting the pension now.

No unfortunately it is not based on overnights but who claims CB. I'm pretty sure my soon to be exw would not agree to me claiming even one of them as it would impact on her income :(

Even if I had the children 80% of the time as she claims the CB I would have to pay her......crazy CMS rules!!!!

Thank you though! You are obliviously a fair minded person for your husband to claim 1 of them.

If you each have the children 50% of the time there is no child maintenance payments to pay. None at all. Unless you are a very high earner when I think there may be some. Are you in this category? Otherwise you won’t need to pay her. Yes she will still receive government child benefit if she’s the claimant but nothing from you.

I’ve only read your updates OP so apologies if someone else has mentioned this but I’m sure you can get a settlement that means the family home is sold when the children are older and have moved out, and then the proceeds are split. There’s also a school of thought that you keep the family home and the parents move between that and a smaller home so the children never move. In hindsight mine would have preferred this (harder for adults but easier for the children).
Children are pretty resilient if they are kept informed, you honestly should sell the family home - imagine how you’ll feel on your 150 a month if she moves someone else in to your old house. Just because you are amicable now doesn’t mean it lasts.

Have you actually run the figures through CM calculator if you did 50:50 childcare. Surely it’s the amount you have to pay which is relevant for your monthly budget.

You seem very focussed on her getting benefits which as are your incomes are equal is not relevant to an asset split so it’s a waste of time (and legal costs) getting hung up this. You should be thankful she gets UC/CB and so won’t need to claim spousal maintenance.

The house is her pension under this agreement.

If your pension is already sufficient for your retirement you can opt out (it’s not good financial sense but if you can’t afford to live and won’t touch capital it’s an option).

It doesn’t matter what she wants you need to look at it objectively / how the court will approach it / the likely outcomes and a lawyer will help you do that. A court will order you both get mortgage capacity reports and assess your earning capacity / future contribution to children etc etc It will say she is overhoused and you both have a need for 3 bed and retirement income.

How long will it take her to pay into and match your pension OP?

You do know that you could claim CB if the children live with you 50%, regardless as to who is claiming now?

It does as seem as if the house is instead of your pension? If so, this could be fair but you have to wait to see the benefit of your part while she reaps the benefit straightaway.

How is she claiming UC with such a large asset? I didn't think that was possible.