Are stay at home mums “unemployed”

[Protectmydaughter]

I only ask as my daughter is getting divorced and her husband’s lawyer has referred to her as unemployed rather than acknowledge her homemaking role; this feels so belittling. Are we being over sensitive? What do others think?

But presumably if you are working a 10 hour day you have outsourced 10 hours of childcare to paid staff/school? And if you're really working, say 7am-7pm with preschool children you can't be doing much childcare?

Most double income families I know with two full time salaries absolutely pay for a cleaner, I'm not a particularly high earner.

I'm impressed what you're managing to achieve working a 50 hour week, cooking, cleaning, gardening, taking full care of your children as much as a SAHM. But this level of stress and work shouldn't just be expected of mothers by default, and it's incredibly judgemental to abuse anyone who isn't similarly a martyr/superhuman.

I work full time, just about manage to cook tea and do quick story bedtime. I feel overwhelmed. And I am lucky that I have a fairly flexible, comparatively humane job.

I’m not sure if you are one of the people above who claimed you do ‘all of the things a sahp does and works full time’ but if you are - where was your child for the ten hours you were working?

Depends really on the form.
I was looking at a retirement visa form the other day and you have to put unemployed as your profession.

9-4 isn't a full time job 🤣, and presumably you also don't commute. And still, you have outsourced mothering for 7 hours a day. So you are not doing the 7 hours of childcare that a SAHM does.

And if you're all working full time and so financially productive why can't you afford a cleaner to take the pressure off? Mystifying.

@Mrsttcno1
there have been at least 3 people on this thread who have claimed ‘they do EVERYTHING a sahp does and work full time’ and @KatMansfield6was responding to that. So for you, if you did everything a sahp does, your child wouldn’t be in nursery.

I have a husband who is my child’s dad, so between us we only need nursery between 9 & 4.

I do commute, so does my husband😂

Why on earth do we need a cleaner?! If we wanted one we could have one, but we don’t need one. This is going to seem CRAZY to you I know but we can actually… take care of those things ourselves!

Only if you think being unemployed is some sort of slur.

If you’re of working age, don’t have an earned income of your own, don’t have a disability or condition that prevents you from working, or aren’t in full time education, then you’re unemployed - through choice or otherwise. It’s not an insult.

We can afford a cleaner but don't feel the need for one. Not everyone who can afford one gets one.

A crazy concept isn’t it! I think we clearly should both be up for trophys!

There is a cost to your babies in returning to work. The hysterical insistence that a working parent does EVERYTHING a SAHM parent does is due to the fact that we all know this but we don't want to face it properly.

A preschool child needs looking after 24 hours a day. You can't both do this and work full time. Each of us chooses how much of our full time childcare we outsource. None of us does both full time childcare and full time work. SAHM do work that working mums don't, working mums do work that SAHM dont.

So many people doing the work of the patriarchy for them.

The economically inactive are defined as people who are not in employment or unemployed. There are many reasons why an individual may be inactive, for example, they might be studying, looking after family or long-term sick.

People not in employment who have not been seeking work within the last 4 weeks and/or are unable to start work within the next 2 weeks.

Sticking to the original query from the OP, ‘unemployed’ is incorrect- see above from just a quick google!

Same here. The adults in our house are fully capable of doing a few hours of cleaning throughout the week. It’s hardly mystifying.

That's because you work part time. My husband and I have actual full time jobs.

You can join us on the trophy podium, we are clearly overachievers!

You are incorrect. Google ‘economically inactive’- it is a distinct and separate category to ‘unemployed’. It’s not about it being offensive, it is technically incorrect. Check it out.

Exactly. I don't find it particularly difficult.

Nope :) we both also have actual full time jobs, husband is actually slightly over your average full time hours, but again, thanks for the compliment we must be really fab 😉

It’s no hate to a SAHP, I’ve done that for the first year of my daughter's life and it isn’t anything to be sniffed at but it’s also not employment. Having done both, SAHP is by far the easier task than juggling work, house & your child.

But a student doesn’t have a job.
A retired person doesn’t have a job.
Neither have employers…but they’re not referred to as unemployed.

As a pp said, being ‘unemployed’ and not being in paid employment are actually quite different things.

A stay-at-home parent is not unemployed.

We must be!

No one is saying they do everything a sahp does. I don’t look after my child during the day. I do every other aspect of parenting though.

You do know which post I was referring to?

Yes, technically they are economically inactive. Either way, they have no independent income through work, which in the OP’s DD’s case now puts her at a disadvantage.

The government calls it economically inactive, it includes, SAHP, early retired, students, long term sick people.

Like I said, I am really sorry you had to use childcare which you think is harmful for your child. Nowhere are the studies as categorical as you state.

You ought to check your language or your critical thinking.

100% this

Assuming they're not looking for paid work a stay at home parent isn't unemployed any more than my 88 year old grandfather or my 16 year-old doing GCSEs. These are people who are not in the workforce (AKA "economically inactive") for reasons other than unemployment. The UK gov't uses the UN's definition of unemployment, which is
"Unemployed people are defined as those aged 16 or over who are without work, available to start work in the next two weeks and who have either:
a) been actively seeking work in the past four weeks, or
b) are waiting to start a new job they have already obtained"

But opposing parties' lawyers are paid to present things in ways that benefit their own clients, not to be objective. That often means finding unflattering ways to describe things, and they can stretch language pretty far doing so. Your daughter's lawyer will rebutt that framing.