Page 10 | Are stay at home mums “unemployed”

Protectmydaughter · 2025-05-21T17:04:01+00:00

I only ask as my daughter is getting divorced and her husband’s lawyer has referred to her as unemployed rather than acknowledge her homemaking role; this feels so belittling. Are we being over sensitive? What do others think?

CloudPop · 22/05/2025 14:32

SirChenjins · 22/05/2025 14:15

And conversely, WOHM (always the mums - never working dads) are accused of doing their babies and children a massive disservice by sending them to nursery or childminders - which they apparently do because they put fancy cars and expensive holidays over their child's welfare. And so it goes on and on.

Edited

Endless isn’t it

wordywitch · 22/05/2025 14:43

Look at the patriarchy getting women to do its work for it. Nice one! 👍

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/05/2025 14:48

We all feel guilty.

No, we don't. I never felt guilty, actually. And I want us to get away from this narrative that it's normal for women to feel guilty. Why should it be?

Men don't feel guilty, do they? So why do we put this on ourselves and each other?

Do whatever suits you and your family. Be a decent parent. It doesn't matter if you WOH or SAH or anything in between. Just live your own life how you want to live it and let others do the same.

SouthLondonMum22 · 22/05/2025 15:44

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/05/2025 14:48

We all feel guilty.

No, we don't. I never felt guilty, actually. And I want us to get away from this narrative that it's normal for women to feel guilty. Why should it be?

Men don't feel guilty, do they? So why do we put this on ourselves and each other?

Do whatever suits you and your family. Be a decent parent. It doesn't matter if you WOH or SAH or anything in between. Just live your own life how you want to live it and let others do the same.

I’ve never felt guilty either. I hate that women who work are expected to feel guilty but it’s never given a second thought when men work.

user1476613140 · 22/05/2025 20:32

I accepted years ago I wouldn't have time for a job especially with having children with additional needs. As someone else has said, lots of hospital appointments and stuff on at various schools means one parent has to be there at the drop of a hat.

I now have various health issues which would make it impossible to get back to work so I study part time with the OU instead which is within my limitations.

Alittlesparrow · 22/05/2025 20:39

SouthLondonMum22 · 22/05/2025 15:44

I’ve never felt guilty either. I hate that women who work are expected to feel guilty but it’s never given a second thought when men work.

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It was me that mentioned about parents feeling guilty and I’m a SAHP though.

I expressed my point badly. What I meant was…both parents who stay at home and parents who work outside the home can feel guilty because of their choices. Not being there enough, or not bringing in enough money or whatever. Of course not everyone does, but for some there are regrets and it doesn’t particularly matter if you’re a sahp or not, this can happen either way. That was my point, sorry that I expressed it badly.

My point was about parents in general, not women particularly @MrsBennetsPoorNerves.
I’m a woman but, like me, I think a man would feel guilty for not financially pulling their weight. Some would anyway.

FuckityFux · 22/05/2025 21:02

MellowPinkDeer · 21/05/2025 18:05

she Is unemployed , she does not have a job. ( I love how this thread is going to go!! So many like this lately!)

Don’t be so silly.

By that definition, all retired people are also Unemployed. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤣🤣

@Protectmydaughter Sounds like the lawyer is using inflammatory language to undermine her case for adequate financial recompense.

Make sure her lawyer refers to her ex as an occasional part-time father. Absolute fucker!!

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/05/2025 22:31

Alittlesparrow · 22/05/2025 20:39

It was me that mentioned about parents feeling guilty and I’m a SAHP though.

I expressed my point badly. What I meant was…both parents who stay at home and parents who work outside the home can feel guilty because of their choices. Not being there enough, or not bringing in enough money or whatever. Of course not everyone does, but for some there are regrets and it doesn’t particularly matter if you’re a sahp or not, this can happen either way. That was my point, sorry that I expressed it badly.

My point was about parents in general, not women particularly @MrsBennetsPoorNerves.
I’m a woman but, like me, I think a man would feel guilty for not financially pulling their weight. Some would anyway.

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But I guess my point is, why should you feel guilty?

If you're doing what works best for your family right now and your partner is on board with you being a SAHP, what is there to feel guilty about? Do you think he feels guilty about going to work?

And yes, some women feel guilty whatever they do. And it is usually women that suffer with guilt in my experience. I would like us to get away from that guilt.

If you're doing what you believe is the best thing for your family overall, and you and your partner are both happy with the division of labour and responsibility, then whatever that might look like, then there is no reason to feel guilty.

My mum was a SAHP and she was utterly plagued with guilt. Guilt about not wanting to be stuck at home. Guilt about not contributing financially. Guilt about wasting her potential. Even guilt about not paying enough tax ffs!

I see tons of women feeling guilty because they're out earning a living to support their families because they somehow feel that they should be at home.

None of this is healthy. I want my dd to grow up in a society where she and her future partner can just organise their lives in whatever way they see fit, without anyone having to feel guilty about the perfectly valid choices that they make. As long as any children are loved and well looked after, it doesn't matter.

Original poster

Protectmydaughter · 22/05/2025 23:24

Lots of interesting perspectives here. Thankyou. What strikes me is the assumptions people make about privilege of not working when clearly it can be a choice but also medical and other circumstances of the parent or child is also relevant. The positives I’m taking from this are: 1) being a stay at home mum is a valuable role albeit not open to all as a choice which is a shame 2) where the SAHM or dad can’t earn more than the childcare costs and the spouse earns enough to support the family the SAHM is effectively contributing financially by not incurring childcare costs when the child is very young. 3) labelling is often intended to be insulting and, where that’s the intent it is of course hurtful.

OP posts:

Alittlesparrow · 22/05/2025 23:55

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 22/05/2025 22:31

But I guess my point is, why should you feel guilty?

If you're doing what works best for your family right now and your partner is on board with you being a SAHP, what is there to feel guilty about? Do you think he feels guilty about going to work?

And yes, some women feel guilty whatever they do. And it is usually women that suffer with guilt in my experience. I would like us to get away from that guilt.

If you're doing what you believe is the best thing for your family overall, and you and your partner are both happy with the division of labour and responsibility, then whatever that might look like, then there is no reason to feel guilty.

My mum was a SAHP and she was utterly plagued with guilt. Guilt about not wanting to be stuck at home. Guilt about not contributing financially. Guilt about wasting her potential. Even guilt about not paying enough tax ffs!

I see tons of women feeling guilty because they're out earning a living to support their families because they somehow feel that they should be at home.

None of this is healthy. I want my dd to grow up in a society where she and her future partner can just organise their lives in whatever way they see fit, without anyone having to feel guilty about the perfectly valid choices that they make. As long as any children are loved and well looked after, it doesn't matter.

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The problem is lots of people are just doing the best they can, while knowing what they are doing probably isn’t in the best interests of their family in many ways.

Many women return to work sooner than they want post-maternity because they have to for financial reasons. Or some people stay home because they’re really needed there, when the household really could do with the money a job would bring in.

Our decisions are often forced upon us, they’re not really a choice at all. When you’d rather parent one way but end up doing something else out of necessity- that can impact how you feel about things.

Basically, lots of people can’t organise their lives how they see fit. They do the best they can in less than ideal circumstances and they are very aware of that.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 23/05/2025 00:54

Alittlesparrow · 22/05/2025 23:55

The problem is lots of people are just doing the best they can, while knowing what they are doing probably isn’t in the best interests of their family in many ways.

Many women return to work sooner than they want post-maternity because they have to for financial reasons. Or some people stay home because they’re really needed there, when the household really could do with the money a job would bring in.

Our decisions are often forced upon us, they’re not really a choice at all. When you’d rather parent one way but end up doing something else out of necessity- that can impact how you feel about things.

Basically, lots of people can’t organise their lives how they see fit. They do the best they can in less than ideal circumstances and they are very aware of that.

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I get that it's very difficult for people who don't have the choice for whatever reason, but that's surely all the more reason why we need to get rid of the guilt.

The people you decide are doing the best that they can for their families within the constraints of whatever situation they're in. There is no need for them to feel guilty about it, and as a society, we should not be encouraging this by suggesting that it's normal or natural to feel guilty.

hopspot · 23/05/2025 06:34

Protectmydaughter · 22/05/2025 23:24

Lots of interesting perspectives here. Thankyou. What strikes me is the assumptions people make about privilege of not working when clearly it can be a choice but also medical and other circumstances of the parent or child is also relevant. The positives I’m taking from this are: 1) being a stay at home mum is a valuable role albeit not open to all as a choice which is a shame 2) where the SAHM or dad can’t earn more than the childcare costs and the spouse earns enough to support the family the SAHM is effectively contributing financially by not incurring childcare costs when the child is very young. 3) labelling is often intended to be insulting and, where that’s the intent it is of course hurtful.

There are assumptions on both sides.

millymollymoomoo · 23/05/2025 09:05

Op you need to separate out labelling or any offence taken or otherwise

in a divorce the only things that matter are

assets available to split
length of marriage
ages of children
earning potential of both
ages of both parties

the aim will be to sever all financial
ties as quickly as possible and provide for basic needs of both parties. Courts prefer clean break.

the presumption will be both parties can work full time and nigh should be seeking to maximise their income ( especially if children are school age )

unless one party is very high earner and /or lots of assets the reality is usually there is not enough to go round and standards of living drop

if there are sen /complex medical needs of children that will be a factor.

spousal maintenance is rare unless very high earner and not enough assets to allow a clean break or complex medical needs meaning one party cannot work ( even then it’s not a given)

whether sahm was choice of one or both or made financial sense or is offensive or not, makes no difference so I wouldn’t get hung up on language.

millymollymoomoo · 23/05/2025 11:24

Oh and there’s no automatic right to stay in the home till children are 18, or for one party to pay housing of the other, or an entitlement to 50% of assets

there’s an entitlement to all assets whether held joint names or individual and a fair share- fair can mean more or less than 50%

Tomatotater · 23/05/2025 12:03

millymollymoomoo · 23/05/2025 09:05

Op you need to separate out labelling or any offence taken or otherwise

in a divorce the only things that matter are

assets available to split
length of marriage
ages of children
earning potential of both
ages of both parties

the aim will be to sever all financial
ties as quickly as possible and provide for basic needs of both parties. Courts prefer clean break.

the presumption will be both parties can work full time and nigh should be seeking to maximise their income ( especially if children are school age )

unless one party is very high earner and /or lots of assets the reality is usually there is not enough to go round and standards of living drop

if there are sen /complex medical needs of children that will be a factor.

spousal maintenance is rare unless very high earner and not enough assets to allow a clean break or complex medical needs meaning one party cannot work ( even then it’s not a given)

whether sahm was choice of one or both or made financial sense or is offensive or not, makes no difference so I wouldn’t get hung up on language.

I agree. its unhelpful to the OP's DD to just rehash the same SAHM /WOHM argument, or for the OP to be taking it as an insult. It's not going to change the situation if the Op's ex son in law has instructed his lawyer to take this tack. Its up to the OP's DD's lawyer to make the case for her to be a SAHM if they can, and 'Its demeaning to me to say I'm unemployed when I'm a SAHM' will not be enough.
When someone is a SAHP, it is usually a joint family decision. If the ex husband is instructing his lawyer that the OP's DD is unemployed, I presume he doesn't want the current arrangement to continue now the marriage is over. It doesn't matter how insulting that it. He doesn't want to pay, he doesn't have to pay (unless there is some reason why OP's D cant work) so some other arrangement has to be made.