Help with splitting assists/mediation

[Redhed87]

Hey, I’m getting divorced, it is not amicable.
for background, he owned a house when we met, I haven’t earnt as much as him or contributed to the household as much, but am on the mortgage and joint owner on the deeds. We were together about 9 years, married 7, although split 3 years ago and he has made it impossible to sort the divorce - and has refused to move out since. He had a separate room and often stays at his girlfriends. Life is hell.
we are finally doing mediation. I now work full time, we have a 3yr old and 4 yr old. He’s agreed I can have full custody, he will have visitation every other weekend.
I am asking for 72% of the assets in our divorce. This was after we had mediation to discuss our debts/assets/income etc. we both said what we needed - I need a house in our current village, 3 bed, for me and the boys. Otherwise I’d have to change job and my son would have to change schools. Which I don’t think is fair, and also if I changed jobs it would really impact my long term career and earnings. My ex had said he needs a 2 bedroom property with a wider acceptable area. We can both afford these things with the above agreement. But he is saying no, it’s not fair, and he wants 50/50. But I can’t agree to that. And I feel like a monster asking for more to be honest but I have to think about my kids - and myself. And I am bitter to be honest and biased and I don’t know whether I’m being unfair. So would really appreciate opinions. Thank you.

on the face of it I can see why he’s not happy

however, it will come down to numbers. How much equity is there? How much has that grown since you’ve been together ?( that won’t necessarily impact the split but will impact his feelings eg if all it is ore marital)

are there pensions or other assets ?

thetes no such thing as custody - there is residency and access. In order to accommodate access eow and over nights he needs suitable accommodation. Why should he have to have a tiny flat

what are the numbers

equity
pensions
other assets
earnings
cms

that will determine an outcome

You might find your needs defined as a 2 bed property as well. Two boys under five don’t need seperate bedrooms. What that means for the split is anyone’s guess.

TBH I would probably move in your position if my choice of property and job were confined to a village.

The idea of custody and visitation don’t apply in English law. You will be the resident parent. He will be the non resident parent and will have a home with them.

Thank you both - sorry I say custody as it’s what I’m used to hearing but yes, I’m the resident parent, he will see them every other weekend and one night in the week for dinner.
The equity has more than doubled since we’ve been together as we brought another house and did it up. In total we have about £240,000 in equity, after we’ve paid off joint debts and mortgage (already agreed in mediation). I think when he got his first property he paid in around £30k but we made around £150k when we moved and renovated.
Pensions we are keeping our own.
He has hidden assets but nothing I can prove (his family are very well off and have assisted him). They also have a property he could move into if he wanted, but he again denies this is a possibility and I can’t prove otherwise.
We both now earn around the same (36k) as I have had to go full time due to the divorce (the plan had always been to work part time to allow me to be there for my boys when they were little). It also offers security and a lot of future opportunities for me, it is a career rather than just a job and I couldn’t earn as much anywhere else with my qualifications. So leaving isn’t an option - I already gave up one career when we started trying for our family and I don’t think it’s right - and literally cannot afford - to do it again. On my current wage I can get a mortgage of £150k - which will allow me to afford a 3 bedroom house in our village, so my son doesn’t have to change schools (I can’t work my hours around school drop off and collections if we move further away, it’s a 4 minute walk and I have 5 minutes from when I finish to collection). He is already struggling enough with the situation and I don’t think it’s fair he has to change schools on top of that. It’s an excellent school, that my ex chose in the first place. It’s worth saying I never wanted to live here, he chose it and now our lives are built around it.
He doesn’t have to have a tiny flat. He can afford a 2 bedroom house with his share (as he can get a mortgage of £165k) - if he was moving alone. However his girlfriend has moved across the country to our area to live with him (she’s currently renting), he is denying they are planning to move in together (as then it would be looked at different as they would have two incomes for a new place).
I hadn’t really thought of two bedroom places, I’ve looked and there are none available in the area and from what I know they are mostly family homes of three bed or more. But I realise this is a want not a need. I just want us to feel settled somewhere I think. This is all hard enough already, I don’t want to have to move again when they’re older, the house we’re in was supposed to be our forever home. But again, I realise that’s totally irrelevant to the court!

What do you both earn?

tiu are asking a lot of equity

Sorry I see you both earn the same

in which case I think you’re unreasonable tbh

you both have same mortgage capacity, need same size place, and it was his asset ( which I realise won’t count)

you can also get the sane mortgage size as him if you earn the same but you want 170k vs his 60-70

Honestly I can't see you being awarded so much of the equity particularly as the marriage was relatively short and he owned the property first.

Why are you ignoring the pension? Presumably if he has been the higher earner then he will have a bigger pension which should be shared unless they are the same amount? How do you know he has hidden assets? If they are a considerable sum then is it worth involving a forensic accountant?

Based on what my friends have achieved in their divorces, 60% of equity for you would be a good result.

I think legally it’s considered a long marriage

I don’t want to take anything I don’t have to. I have a pension and I’m not worried about when I retire etc, I just want to make sure my kids are safe and their lives don’t change dramatically now.

You won’t get that much because your needs are more or less the same and you earn the same.

He has a higher mortgage capacity than me. He doesn’t need the same size place, he can get somewhere smaller.
if I got 50/50 I would have to give up my job so my mortgage potential would be much much less, my home (which is happening anyway), my son would have to change school, on top of both kids having to cope with divorcing parents, and could only afford a 2 bedroom flat, if that, depending on what my new job was. My kids are living in a 4 bedroom house with a huge garden - which don’t get me wrong I know we are so so lucky to have, but I don’t see how it can be fair for us to lose everything and have our life completely change - and for me to not be able to carry on on my career which could potentially offer a better future.
He has lots of options available to him, and will have two incomes as soon as the financial side is settled, so his mortgage potential could possibly double. I’m going to be on my own for the next ten plus years unless a miracle happens, which is fine as I’m happy just me and my boys but it just seems I’m losing everything, including the family I’d always hoped for, and he just walks away and starts a new life with his new family like it’s nothing.
like I said, bitter, sorry.

I’ve only recently started earning the same, and our needs are very different.

Sorry meant to quote - I’ve only recently started earning the same, and our needs are very different.

I don’t want to take anything I don’t have to. I have a pension and I’m not worried about when I retire etc, I just want to make sure my kids are safe and their lives don’t change dramatically now.

But you said he's hiding assets? Why would you deprived yourself of what could be a massive amount?

If the pensions are included what asset split would you need to enact you plan? 72 percent is highly unlikely if you earn similarly now. That's usually for people with a large discrepancy in income or very a long marriage with one sahp.

He's already playing dirty, why not include what you are legally entitled to?

I hadn’t realised our similar earnings now would affect things so much. I’ve pretty much been a stay at home parent for the last four years, and before that was having fertility treatment and difficulties so wasn’t working full time, it’s only in the past 10 months I’ve had to up my hours as he was supposed to move out, but hasn’t, and we couldn’t have survived on my small wage.
I don’t really know how it all works with the pensions, if we include it now does it get taken into account with the settlements? I didnt ask in the mediation session as I just thought it was something accessed later in life and I just was worried about now.

If he has a much bigger pension than you you can use this as a bargaining chip in the split.

So for example his pension is worth £100k and yours is worth 10k you agree not to touch his pension for a higher equity split. I think 70% is unlikely still but you could get 60/40 your favour.

Divorce will mean a drop in living standard and the only one who wins with a long battle is the lawyer.

You both earn the same. Your needs are exactly the same (you both need to house the children in suitable accommodation) and your mortgage capacity is exactly the same (as you both earn the same).

The discrepancy is pensions - you need to get both yours & his valued. The start point would be 50:50.

You both have the same housing needs (it doesn’t matter if he has EOW + a night in the week). You both need suitable accommodation to house the children.

You won’t get 72% of the assets if there’s £240k equity (£172,800 to his £62,200).

The start point will be 50:50. You may get more as the RP but I doubt it would be a great deal more based on you have the same income & housing needs.

The courts won’t care if the children have to change schools. Kids are adaptable.

I’m still waiting for my proper figure back but I think mine is currently worth about 10k and his is 55k. I’d be happy to not touch his. But honestly my difficult is I’ve laid exactly what I need on the table - based on the cheapest sold house prices in the village I live. I can’t go any lower without relocating, and like I said losing everything. Even with this split our lives are significantly different - happier but we are losing out on a lot.
The only other option the mediator mentioned is a mescher order or similar, where I get to stay in the house until the boys are 18 etc, then sell and go 50/50. I’d take over the mortgage. This would be my first option for me and the kids. But because he has debts (so do I in fairness) and wouldn’t get any money now he has flat out refused.

sorry, I don’t understand why he has the same housing needs as me? He doesn’t. And he has said he doesn’t too?
I thought the courts put the children’s needs first? And also I thought 50/50 was a myth? That’s what the legal advice I had said initially (admittedly prior to mediation and financial disclosure).
also I have realised I haven’t included his additional income (not salary) which has been disclosed - he currently gets an extra £800 a month than me (after tax).

Thank you all. Seems I am just very bitter and being unreasonable. It does just feel totally unfair we’re losing everything because of choices he’s made and losing our whole lives, and he gets to walk off and start over with someone else. But such is life. At least we’ll be happy and free.
thank you for your input.

Why do you say your needs are very different? You have 2 children who will be spending time with both parents and hopefully staying in their present school, so the housing needs are the same.

Mescher orders are very rare, and usually only where one parent earns a huge salary (£100k+). How big is your mortgage at the moment? The split when your youngest turns 18 would be based on the value of the property at that time. So on 15 year’s time you could be in a situation whereby youve got your current mortgage plus and additional mortgage to pay him off. That’s why theyre a bad idea.

Because they will live with me. Their clothes, toys, belongings, hobby equipment, lives will be at our house. They will grow up there. They love playing in the garden - not a need I know, but if he’s considering their best interest surely things like that must get considered? If they stay in the present school it needs to be in this village. A house they spend practically all their time is not the same as somewhere they occasionally visit. They wouldn’t refer to it as their home. Having two flats without a garden for them just seems cruel when it doesn’t have to be that way.
He needs to have a room for them to stay in fortnightly. He doesn’t need to store their things. And to be honest I’d be very suprised if he continues to have them that often anyway.