CMS advice to DH

[FallenFigs]

Me again...

SthxH has kids 40%, I have made a claim to the CMS as he was paying each month, has stopped etc etc.

The amount is pro-rata'd because he has them some nights. He currently pays pocket money, a few other bits. I pay some sports clubs, all school lunches etc (even on the days they go from his house etc). He has said the CMS have told him that because he is, or will be, paying CMS, that he doesn't need to pay anything else AT ALL for the kids.

In effect, that I should pay all costs for the kids. Even things like sports clubs on the weekends he has them, lunches for school on days they go from his house. I know this isn't right, but unfortunately as they have told him this, he will now only do that.

I would understand if they were with me 100% and he paid me 100%, but it is pro-rata'd down to account for the fact he has some responsibility too. How on earth can I get him to understand this? As it's really very frustrating.

Legally he doesn’t have to pay for extras if he doesn’t want to. Realistically your choices are to say no or pay 100%.

If you go 50/50 then I would assume that he’d behave the same. As he won’t pay for a school trip you’ll spend even more time chasing him for half payment of necessities like school shoes. There would be no legal repercussions for him if he didn’t pay (contact and money are separate issues ) and taking him to court costs money.

It’s obviously not morally right but unfortunately morals and the law don’t match

He would actually still need to pay a little CMS if 50/50. So I would still have a lever of sorts.

Yes, he would behave the same. Like someone who doesn't think they should contribute to their kids. Happy to take his GF on holiday, but not his kids. That sort of person.

Please please please don't drag yourself to his level and drag your kids into your relationship. It ends well for nobody and it causes the kids so much stress and anxiety. Believe me.

Yes this is my gut instinct. They see how I manage money (well!) and that I am reliable in that I do what I say. They also see that he cannot manage money and what he choses to prioritise. I think I prefer to let it speak for itself.

I still might do the pie chart thing tho.

It's shit but the way the system is, if he won't pay, you basically pay it all or they can't go.

Theres men out there who try and get 50/50 in order to get out of paying proper child support and then expect the mum to cover everything. They're fully prepared for their children to go without experiences and extras and also seem to see paying for their childrens basics as a favour to their mum.

My sisters ex expected my sister to arrange and pay for childcare to enable him to work when he had the kids after he pushed for 50/50 he then expected her to pay for everything at his home, he bullied my sister out the family home and had a three bedroom house to himself while my sister and the three kids were in one room at my mums until she could get housing. Some men will shaft their children just to get one over on mum.

He's sort of right.

If he's paying the amount cms tell him to then, no he doesn't contribute towards them beyond that when they're with you. However, he does pay for anything for them when they're with him. And that's very a very simplistic view but the cms view nonetheless.

So if you take them to the cinema on a sat - you pay. If he takes them swimming on a Sunday he'd pay. He pays to feet them when they're with him just like you do when they're with you.

Cms doesn't get beyond the basics so things like hobbies etc are blurred lines in reality, but cms would say he doesn't have to pay towards that on top of his cms.

One thing is for sure - I've never yet heard anyone praise CMS. It's just about finding your own way but it sounds like you might have to accept that ExH will be a knob about it all.

For what it's worth, ex h has settled down over the years. He now pays his CMS minimum to me and then he pays for one hobby while I pay for the other 2. He's started buying DS a few clothes etc too. I've learned to just roll with resistance over the years to be fair.

I've just done the % calc. The CMS is 14% of his take home. Hardly 'all his money' is it. He has 86% of his take home for housing, bills etc. And it's a tidy sum, far more than I have.

Just to add. Most of the time, cms is void if it's 50/50 despite what the other parent earns. It states on the first page of the calculator online. X

Ok Im even more enraged now. So, he 'gives me' 14% of his net income. His remaining amount overall is x. My remaining overall amount (i.e. salary plus CMS) is 80% of his x. He then expects me to pay all extra curricular costs out of a lower starting amount.

This is what I am going to present to the kids. No figures, but explain it in percentages. The % he gives me, and the resulting % he is left with. I will leave them to figure out that I have managed to take them on holiday and do things for them, and he has not. And, that his 14% is hardly subsiding me, it's paying for his kids.

Why don't CMS simply say that their figure is the MINIMUM he should pay?

They pretty much do, but they have no jurisdiction to make anyone pay more, that's down to individual agreements.

Yes but where do they say that? And, the missing bit is still, if the paying parent has the DC on any days/nights, then they are responsible for costs that arise then. Which includes more than electricity and some loo roll!

Nobody is saying it is right, but you're getting wound up about something you can't change.

He is responsible for all costs incurred on his days so meals, clothes etc. ideally he would split the activities/school trips but unfortunately you can't make him. Some parents just love to pay the bare minimum!

You could try this page...

www.grahame-stowe-bateson.co.uk/what-does-child-maintenance-cover/

It (or similar) is the closest you'll get to something saying he should pay up for his costs.

Op - mine were teens and I started to do household budgeting with them so all my income and outgoings were laid bare. They could literally see everything. One of the reasons I did it was so they could see the truth (without me saying anything) and question the narrative being presented by their v high earning Dad who claimed I was bleeding him dry. I explained pay cheques, P60s, showed them CMS letters (which helpfully gave ex's massive weekly income) - the lot. They learned loads (eldest at uni is honestly so financially savvy and clued up compared to his peers). We also made decisions together about how to use money - school trips, holidays, treats etc. it was all done jointly and openly. It required pragmatism - no fancy school trip abroad as we worked out the £ would pay for a week for us to go as a family instead - doing it cheaply and on a budget. I bought uniform second hand and they sold outgrown stuff/ toys to add to their savings. They got small jobs when they were old enough.

Honestly if he is like this now he will not change and there is no mechanism in the system to get him to change. You have to let it go for your peace of mind and work with what you have and can control. I get the frustration. My ex was the same - would resent providing sanitary wear for our daughter when she stayed with him! I provided everything. Despite the mega income he refuses to support uni age kids so again that falls on me. i do it openly and gladly within my means.

Teens are wise - they v quickly see the truth of the matter. mine increasingly reduced overnights with their Dad as he just didn't prioritise or support them. by age 15/16 they were with me 100% and just seeing their Dad for a meal a couple of times a week (which i encouraged as they wouldn't have gone otherwise!) i got full CMS, they were much happier and we could budget more easily. We were and are a solid supportive team. Gave them my love and time in spades. i did 100% of the parenting. They are now amazing, grounded, kind and high achieving young people if i do say so. We love being together. He remains bitter and angry about money & all of this but is still blind to his role in it.

Honestly, don't give him your head space. Focus on you and the kids.

But holidays etc are your choice - if you want to take them then you take them.
You seem to angry but there's nothing you can do to change it. He earns more and he gives you what CMS say he needs to give you - end of story.

If you want kids to go on trips you both have to agree to it - if not then if you want them to go you pay. No one can make him agree

The only thing I can see that's wrong is him not paying for school dinners on his days off

It's shit but it the reality of parenting when you are divorced

If the joint assets were split 50/50 then you might have a point. However, in other threads you were saying you were expecting to receive more equity and he could have a larger mortgage. If that's the case then his extra money might just be servicing a bigger mortgage than yours?

The lower earner normally has less income after divorce but they normally start with more assets than the other. In my experience, the more uneven the original asset split, the more unwilling the higher earner is to pay extra and to be honest I think this is fair enough.

You've also asked a similar question before OP and had pretty much the same answer, in 2023. You need to move past this. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/divorce_separation/4821020-what-is-maintenance-supposed-to-cover

Thanks all. I think the particular set back now is that he has got into his head (apparently via the CMS advice) that the CMS he pays me covers absolutely everything, and that he shouldn't spend even a penny more on his children, even when they are with him some of the time.

As I have said, if they were with me 100% that would be different. But they are with him some of the time.

I know I need to move past it. And I shall! The shifting goalposts are hard to deal with, and a form of power move of course.

If he asks for money for anything on his time just ignore this ridiculousness. Once you’ve got your parenting time set and money, theres really no need for much more conversation between you both.

The whole thing is grim @FallenFigs , I'm in a very similar situation to you and it sucks...including XH (earning more than three times what I do) having convinced his mother that he is so hard done by that she has given him a bag of second-hand girl's clothes (for DS) from one of her neighbours...who has fallen for the same sob story. And he makes DS get changed out of these clothes when he brings him home after a visit...whereas any clothes that DS has that I have bought often end up at XH's for months, or go missing.

I can't say anything to DS (he's younger than your two) but one day he'll work it out as he's not daft...and then maybe his father will realise that it was him, DS, he was short-changing, not me...

I would totally do what @cmsquagmire does. Kids should be taught about finances, no better way than real life examples! Make sure you also talk about financial abuse in the mix. You'll be setting them up for success in adulthood.
Don't make it about him, make it about your lives together.

No, if it ends up as I think, he’ll have about the same mortgage outgoings as I will. Less on bills, probably (smaller house).

Okay, so if he ends up with a smaller house than you then he will have less than you? So whilst he may not need to spend as much on a mortgage, he will have less than you.

If you bought the same size house as him, who would have the bigger mortgage?