Parental alienation

[wildlingtribe]

Anyone have any advice on being at the receiving end?

I'm so sorry that must be really hard position to be in. Not sure how to handle that, I suppose mediation isn't looking like it's on the cards and the only other route is court but how much they could do I don't know considering her age.

Unless through courts they would pick up on anything in terms of her being turned against you, they might set in an order to deal with that or at least you would have contact schedules in place. Whether that would be the case or cause more friction between you both, I don't know...but your hands are kinda tied by the sounds of it and may not have any other option.

The only other thing I can think of to get advice is to maybe post on the relationship board to see if others can offer advice in terms of how to help the relationship between you and your daughter improve. Bit more active in there and others may have faced similar troubles...just an idea.

Hi,

Going through the same thing as a dad. Wife has been under a lot of outside strain for a few months and has been acting out of character - quite emotionally abusive and neglecting kids etc. Neither myself or the kids could talk to her without her blowing up. We actually lived avoiding her with the kids sharing their concerns with me constantly.

Eleven days ago she demanded a divorce, became surrounded by friends and family who never liked me and had blanked me for years, then phoned the police and concocted a story which, when a court looks at it will be so transparently untrue it will be crazy. She tried to take out Non-Mol and Residency Orders which the judge immediately set aside.

But it's still very hurtful to be accused groundlessly. And have friends all hypothesising that she's cheating because she had everything in place so quickly.

But the ABSOLUTE WORST part is that I haven't seen my kids or spoken to them in ELEVEN days. It's tearing me up and she knows it will be. She took them away and I don't know where any of them are. My children's last texts show that they wanted to be with me, love me etc.

I'm not sure if this is in the right thread. i'm just very emotionally and physically exhausted and exasperated that despite everyone telling me how wrong it all is, how everyone looking at the evidence tells me I'm right, social workers are taking forever to assign a case worker, police are doing absolutely nothing an passing the buck to social workers and my solicitors DESPITE there being welfare risks to my two kids from a third party and neglect and emotional abuse history from my wife. My solicitors aren't finding HER solicitors very co-operative (my wife started the solicitor involvement).

Every crisis helpline and charity has supported me 100% but they are powerless. What shocks me is how common they say all this is.

Tonight, I'm grieving for my children. It's absolutely like a bereavement. I don't know where they are, if they are safe and no-one who could and should do something seems to give a damn :-(

The reason it is common is because the perpetrator seldom gets punished and there are potential benefits from taking this action such as higher CMS payments.

Taking the incentives away by replacing our current CMS system with something that is based on the relative earning capacities of payer and recipient (with a maximum ceiling and minimum floor) could solve a lot of this. A criminal record for false accusations (and ignoring this criminal record to determine earning capacity) would also help.

The situation is still ongoing.

I can't understand how a close bond can be shattered.

I feel extremely broken by this.

@wildlingtribe I'm so sorry you're going through this still, it shouldn't be possible, cruel.

Have you thought about trying to take steps like court to intervene? I know it's hard as yours is older and my situation is bit different but I believe in my case they may see it for what it is, things are moving I believe, albeit slowly.

If you need someone to talk to anytime or vent feel free to private message.

I've also had a very traumatic thing happen in my family the last month and my daughter honestly doesn't seem to care. The person involved has always been there for us, always and always. Devoted. But she just doesn't seem to be bothered. I almost lost this person, and he will have life long injuries. But she doesn't seem to care.

Make mimics her father & GM mannerisms now.
It's almost like she doesn't want me to exist anymore.
Her birthday is soon and she has no interest in telling me anything she wants or like to do despite me asking. Everything is about her dad. With her dad.

Still refusing to come home. If I go to her GM house where she is with her dad at the moment (when he's looking after them as I'm at the hospital) I will sit near her trying to make general convo. She will ignore me, move away to another sofa and talk with her dad.

If I try to engage or hug or anything - it's like I'm invisible.

Broken beyond words right now.

I'm at day 38 of separation from my kids and I feel very much for you. i haven't had a chance to read every post on here as struggling with a health issue but, as far as I know, parental alienation is now recognised in UK law.

I'd like you to know that I feel for your pain and am sending you a big compassionate hug for what it's worth. I'm afraid I can't be on here much right now due to pain and appointments but I hope you are freed from this cruelty soon ❤

Thank you. (Sorry I can't remember how to direct reply)

It is heartbreaking. On top of the traumatic family stuff I have going on at the moment too.

It's her birthday this weekend. And she doesn't have any interest in me being part of it.

I'm crushed. (Sorry to sound self indulged)

If I would've been a terrible mother, if I would've given reason for this and if she had been this way a long time then I would understand. But I am a good mum, those closest to me and my family have been witness. My family & friends (our kids are friends) are shocked. She doesn't bother with any of us. And the fact that for two years up to June this year, she didn't like her father coming to our home. She knew her dad smoked weed as she figured it out after learning about it in class. She wouldn't want to answer his phone calls or stay there despite me encouraging. She did have a good word to say about MIL. She's always been close with me and my side of the family. Then it switched. Like an on/off button over a week.

I think the bribery/ gift buying/love bombing from them both/ and the fact that she wants her dad's love. She's jumped ship for an "easier life".

Her school is closer to them. Her best friend.
She gets gifts. Phone and tv boundaries what I've previously said over ruled. And the fact that she now also seems to mimick, say or do what their opinions of me. They have called me a liar for years. They've said so many hurtful things to the kids about me. Including that "I kicked their dad out" or that "your mum got a new boyfriend?" - never have done either of these. The level of hurt and broken trust has put me off anything. But the fact they put down my honesty, when all I've done is be honest and try to assert boundaries for the kids and myself. - the finger is always pointed at me.

I feel your pain and you're being human in my view NOT sel-indulged. I think you have to acknowledge your feelings to process them.

My heart goes out to you (I'm in a similar situation birthday-wise) and the in-law poisoning/propaganda war is, I believe, going on in my case (probably most cases) too.

I have to get ready for an appointment but I'll be thinking about you as I do. Keep doing the everyday. Focus on each moment. that's how I'm passing for "getting through". Inside I'm not dancing.

Even stuff like. My friends are saying to just let her get on with it now. That they can see how much it's paining me to keep trying and getting rejected.

My other three children have asked to do stuff for half term. I include her to come but she shuts me down. And spends her time with exMIL from hell (who's got into her brain as being perfect gran)

Feel for you also, it's not self indulgence, it's a normal response. Very much akin to grief I am finding.

Just like you, if I had been that way then that would be understandable but it's never been the case. It shouldn't be possible or allowed, highly manipulative, abusive people twisting the minds of children who don't understand. The damage it causes to an adult let alone a child... insidious.

I know it's harder as your daughter is older, mine are young but I don't think I could just let them get on with it. I would try get third parties involved myself and or courts because they seem to be wising up to alienation, it's happening all over the country even overseas in like in America.

Understand the birthdays too, I've missed one already, nothing fathers Day and I'm going to miss other child's birthday as well, not right.

Keep strong, I know you feel alone and we are strangers on the Internet but I'm thinking of you also, just like I am with @JustDad46.

Thank you, and right back at you.

So she had her birthday, I was pushed away then blamed for not doing as they expected to go THERE and give presents.

I asked so many times about having a special day to she, coming home to have time with me and the siblings and presents - no.

He has been very verbally abusive for the last three days.

Manipulation.

He has apparently arranged a meal today for her and all his family and our children. One of them is with me. And he's refusing to pick her up to take her. (I found out 1 hr before the meal. ) I also still don't know the location. But he's expecting me to take her to him.

He got my daughter to lie to me on the phone as I asked where they were at the moment - she wouldn't tell me.

I said how could you not have said yesterday when I picked up our youngest? He just had verbal.

My daughter then kept hanging up on me and said dad doesn't want to talk to you.

So now I have an upset small child. And around that lunch table my name will be mud again for not taking her to the meal - I knew nothing about. Still don't know the location.

I contacted mediation. But I'm worried it won't help and make my daughter go further and further away.

Her presents and decorations are still up 😢

Feel so sad for you and relate totally. Just had a conversation in person with another dad with similar experiences... and then his grown son had them too! This alienation crap is all too common. It doesn't inspire me personally when people tell me that eventually kids see through the bullshit. What about the missing years?

@wildlingtribe I'm sending you a virtual hug. I wish I could do more ❤Take comfort in some of the support you'll get on here because there doesn't seem to be that much from the professionals involved.

@Catsafterme thanks for the kind thoughts. They make a difference to me as I feel so isolated. I'm not usually a very online person but this community has offered up some really decent people along with those with an axe to grind. Every one of the former is worth ten of the latter to me.

Same here, (sorry I can't remember how to add a tag)
I don't want to be airing all this but I feel I just feel hopeless. 😞 never would I have thought that I would've woke up on a milestone birthday, without the birthday child. Broke me.
She has erased me. And only answers to her dad and exMIL. I'm not in any ranking at all.

That's very sad and I'm sure you could never have imagined a day like this would ever come. I try not to air too much on here because a lot of people get opinionated very quickly even when you save most of the dirtiest laundry about your other half from public view. I've had some really nice support through private messaging though.

I do think you might want to maintain some presence on here as the support can be very important. Who'd have thought any of us would be getting sympathy and support from strangers over lost contact with our own kids whilst partners and families alienate us?

I haven’t read the full thread but IME parental alienation is a real thing, but is also used and abused by bad parents whose children finally realise what’s going on.

My mother is STILL trying to alienate me from my father (I’m 31), to the extent that my partner recently commented that she can’t speak a sentence without putting my dad down in some way or another. It’s easier to tell what she’s doing but at 13? Not so much. Even worse, she maintains that I am frightened of her and don’t like to hang around with her purely because of things my dad has said, while he scrupulously refuses to speak badly of her and completely ignores the fact that she’s been arrested for violence against us four times.

If there’s a “golden child” v rest of the siblings dynamic that’s also not good. I’m sorry I don’t have any advice but maybe during this bad time hold on to the hope that once your children have done a bit of growing up and got more life experience, perhaps some outside perspective, they’ll view the situation differently and there will be a more complete reconciliation. All my sympathy OP.

I think if your DD was younger I would be more worried because the alienation can bake in. I think it's much more normal for teenagers to yoyo like your DD is, wishing her grandmother dead one minute and spending all her time with her the next.

I think the bigger challenge for you is that there is a growing chasm between the way he wants to bring her up and the way that you want to. His more liberal approach where she can stay up late, download what she wants from social media etc is at odds with your more disciplined (and frankly, in my opinion, more appropriate) parenting style but a teenager is going to be attracted to his approach 9 times out of 10. Are there things you can do to loosen the reigns at home - without completely abandoning proper parenting in the way that he does - that could strike a happy balance?

There are boundaries at home but in balance. Screen time, helping out, respect towards one another, homework times etc, The usual. And it was all fine.
But to have zero boundaries - it's a complete contrast.
She was given her own room. Not the others.
She gets treated like a single child. There's four of them. She swore at me and her dad for the first time the other week. He laughed it off, I took her phone away. I explained that behaviour like that comes with a consequence. Her father allowed her other device time in her room and grandmother gave her her phone to access her social media. Lose lose for me.

She has completely cut me and my whole side of the family off. My best friend and her child who is like another aunty.

One of my family members who has always been a huge person in her life almost died a month ago. And she still refuses to see them. They are still in hospital. And she refuses.

She also still hasn't come home to have her birthday gifts from me. It's all left in the special place I do each year for all of their birthdays. Always special. Always personalised. She just said I can have them here, otherwise I don't want them.

Very early in this thread @LemonTT response was pretty bang on.

@wildlingtribe I'd suggest dropping the narc vibes and focus on how to build bridges, rather than burn them down.

Do you want to carry on being upset, or do you just want a better relationship with your children?

I think all points are valid.

Personally, it's not a case of just being "upset". It's the agonising concern that my child has had an 'over weekend' change of heart that's led to this point. It was that rapid. And it's now been months. I try to build bridges, but I must stress, the bridges that they have burned down. I know it's easy to say blanket terms, and I don't want to put labels on anything or anyone. But when you feel like people are intentionally trying to poison the most important factor of your life against you. Then it's hard not to look into these things, and specific terminology that's obviously recognised now.

Yes, being 13 will bring challenges. We've all been there. But the worrying thing is from a parents view is that myself, and my whole side of my family have been cut off by her. She knows how devoted and loving we are. This is why I think it's more psychological that she just chose the parent where she wasn't at the receiving end of the stress anymore (like I was by them) (with part play of the practical, teen/tech/ boundaries etc)
Thank you all for the messages.

This is a horrible situation for your, your daughter and your other children and family members. As someone who has been on the receiving end, I can say teenagers are especially vulnerable to “peer pressure” and are really malleable. My mother never managed actually to convince me that my dad was an abusive liar because there was so much evidence to the contrary, but she intimidated me so much and used manipulative tactics so successfully that my aunt once described me as “her creature”. Now I’m an adult and particularly since I’ve had lots of friends and some partners who have seen through her in five seconds flat, she at least doesn’t have that degree of control over me and I’m never going to be the frightened, fawning child trying frantically to please her so I don’t get more verbal and emotional abuse again. That doesn’t make it easier, but it’s very likely your DC will come around.

With regards to practical actions, I would stop doing things that require reciprocity (you’ll feel heartbroken if you don’t get it) and if you want to maintain a line of communication, focus on things that don’t require a reaction - texts, cards, presents, proud posts on social media etc. She’ll remember them in the future but you don’t have to go through hope/expectation and disappointment while she’s still resisting contact. Given that she’s turned on you so quickly - if you had a good relationship before, she’s probably been told something really shocking that has changed her mind overnight - she’ll see you being kind and consistent and probably be unable to square it with what she’s been told.

That was a really kind and constructive message and, despite it being aimed at someone else in an entirely different situation, i took a lot of heart from it just when I really needed it. I hope it helps the OP too ❤

Hi all, still no further forward. My first mediation appointment is next week. I'm anxious already, their dad just makes life hard. In non obvious ways. Our daughter still doesn't come anywhere near me, I know I need to stop expecting, or like previous comments (waiting for reciprocity) but it is hard when it's still so confusing. I offer, get shut down. I take a step back - she's fed that I don't care.

Either way - the result is the same. I'm meant to have a meeting at her school too but I'm anxious about that as her dad and Grandmother put on a very good face. And with her 'want' to being with them and not me - doesn't paint me in a good light does it. I just don't understand. I mean I have my ideas, but at the root of it. It's not a simple "I want to stay with my dad" - she has completely shut me, my dad who she has always doted on and him her and the other three children too of course, my whole network and family - she doesn't bother.

They turned up to a kids hobby the other day, she doesn't even say hi, or look my way. She will stand beside him non stop. Even when other parents are they. I feel so embarrassed that my child is doing this. And ashamed at how I must look. Sorry to sound self indulgent but it really is hard to not think that way when she does this quite openly in public too. And people do judge don't they.

Sadly things haven't got any better. I have had a meeting with the school now and had a first mediation appointment so they will contact him now. I know he will spill lies, as will my daughter as she doesn't want to break that bond with her dad. It's an unhealthy attachment now. And him and his mother should be ashamed for encouraging a hatred for her mother.
It's broken me honestly.