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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Stuck in Joint Tenancy

47 replies

KeepSmiling89 · 15/06/2023 09:51

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4674082-trying-to-leave

Stuck in a really S*y position. I left my ex mid-February and have been staying at my mum's house with my now 18 month old DD. We have a shared care arrangement in place until he gets himself sorted with a job (NOT going to happen as he's just waiting for UC and doesn't want to work, just wants to be a full time SAHD). When I'm at work, my mum looks after DD.
The s*y position I'm in is that we were living in a privately rented house under a joint tenancy agreement. Under this contract, the only way to end the tenancy is for BOTH tenants to give written notice to terminate the lease. I can't do this on my own. He wants to stay in the house, but is waiting on his UC application coming through so he knows what money he'll be getting etc. Basically, I'm paying full rent and bills for a house I'm no longer living in! As far as I know, the only thing he's sorted is council tax as that direct debit didn't come off our joint account this month. I've also recently cancelled our Sky subscription and TV licence. The rent is £600 a month and utilities are about £350 (thanks to increase in energy prices!) so it's a LOT of money when I could be saving that for a house of my own for me and DD!
I contacted the letting agents to see what I could do to take my name off the lease etc, but they're tied by law as we have to end this joint tenancy and ex has to apply for a new single tenancy when the joint one is terminated.
He said he has an appointment at the job centre at the end of this month so he thinks he's going to find out how much UC he'll be getting (don't think he realises that this isn't what the appointment is about and it'll probably be about his plans to look for work when DD is a bit older...I don't know, but I'm pretty sure that's more realistic!)

Don't know why I'm posting...just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation...do I just have to wait this out or is there anything I can do? I've spoken to a solicitor who suggested giving my notice to end the tenancy so when ex does the same, that's it sorted, but I've done that and we both need to give notice at the same time so they can't accept my written notice yet and ex won't give notice until he's got his UC.
Just so FED UP!

Trying to leave | Mumsnet

Hi All I posted a thread under a different username a while back detailing my lightbulb moment of realising I was subject to domestic abuse (verbal,...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/4674082-trying-to-leave

OP posts:
saveforthat · 15/06/2023 09:55

Just stop paying, have you still got a joint account? Transfer any credit to an account in your name only. There is no way I would be paying for him to live there.

Waitingforsummer75 · 15/06/2023 09:58

Don't keep paying rent. UC will treat it as an untidy tenancy and life will be far easier for him if he transfers it into his name. Take your name off the utilities and don't pay them either.

RandomMess · 15/06/2023 10:00

Stop paying the bills!

Stratocumulus · 15/06/2023 10:03

Check out the Shelter web site.
Check out the Gov.uk website for tenancy info.

I am a landlord. I’m not saying I know everything because I’ve never had to evict a tenant or deal with a situation like yours. Please do your own research. But ….

If one tenant of a joint tendency moved out, I would simply set up a new contract for the tenant left behind. I’d have to go through the hoops of credit checks etc but that’s not your problem. It’s for the landlord to accept him or serve a S21 to get him out. Landlord could serve an S8 if he goes into arrears and go through the courts for possession/bailiffs. Look those documents up.

Your scenario happens 100’s of times a day across the UK. There’s got to be a way around this, you just need to do more research. Not every man or woman who walks out can carry on supporting a tenancy like you are.

BTW not all solicitors are au-fair with tenancy laws etc. if you can afford it, find yourself a specialist. Shelter might know of one in your area.

FlemCandango · 15/06/2023 10:03

Where is it said that you both have to end the tenancy as most standard joint tenancies only require one party in a joint tenancy to end it? If you are in a fixed term tenancy then you will have more of an issue due to being stuck in the agreement until the end of the fixed term with you and ex jointly and severally liable for the rent. Your ex may be able to claim the full rent temporarily in the UC housing element if he can provide evidence of your separation.

england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/relationship_breakdown/housing_rights_of_cohabiting_joint_tenants/relationship_breakdown_for_joint_tenants

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/how_to_end_a_fixed_term_tenancy_early

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/joint_tenancies/how_to_end_a_joint_tenancy

SD1978 · 15/06/2023 10:04

The rent I do t think you can just stop paying as it will affect you too- the bills though, should all be out your name and you have no obligation to continue them.

caringcarer · 15/06/2023 10:19

I'm a LL and had couples splitting up where they had a joint tenancy. The thing to do is break the tenancy. Then a new tenancy agreement be set up in his name. It is very simple to do. Ask agent to do this for you.

caringcarer · 15/06/2023 10:21

If utilities are in your name but you no longer live there then do a final reading and phone in and give your forwarding address for your final utility bill. Ex partner can get it all put in his name. You need to be thinking of your self and your child not your ex. Leave him to sort himself out.

Original poster
KeepSmiling89 · 15/06/2023 10:25

Thank you for all your replies.
The lettings manager I spoke with earlier this week was in touch with the Scottish Association of Landlords (SAL) and confirmed that both tenants have to give written notice to terminate the lease. Our tenancy agreement says:
24. ENDING THE TENANCY

This tenancy may be ended by:

(i) The Tenant giving notice to the Landlord;
• the Tenant giving the Landlord at least 28 days' notice in writing to terminate the tenancy, or any other minimum notice period as otherwise validly agreed between the Landlord and Tenant. Where the Landlord and Tenant agree to a notice period other than 28 days' notice, such agreement must be in writing. The tenancy will come to an end on the date specified in the notice. To end a joint tenancy, all the Joint Tenants must agree to end the tenancy. One Joint Tenant cannot terminate the joint tenancy on behalf of all Joint Tenants.

She has said I can go through the courts via Matrimonial Homes Act or just wait to find out when he'll be in a position to apply for a single tenancy with a guarantor if he's not working (with the way he's behaving, he's very unlikely to have someone willing to be a guarantor).

OP posts:
Original poster
KeepSmiling89 · 15/06/2023 10:27

@caringcarer I'm looking into taking my name off of the utilities bills etc just now as well.
What do you mean by 'break' the tenancy? Does that mean break one of the rules set in the agreement?

OP posts:
RandomMess · 15/06/2023 11:04

Speak to Shelter and see if that agreement is lawful - it may or may not be in Scotland.

When does the tenancy otherwise end?

Dillydollydingdong · 15/06/2023 11:07

Just stop paying. Simples. Either he carries on paying or he gets evicted.

caringcarer · 15/06/2023 11:13

KeepSmiling89 · 15/06/2023 10:27

@caringcarer I'm looking into taking my name off of the utilities bills etc just now as well.
What do you mean by 'break' the tenancy? Does that mean break one of the rules set in the agreement?

Sorry, I didn't realise you were in Scotland. I'm in England and when my tenants told me the issue, I just agreed to end the joint tenancy and start a new tenancy in the name of the tenant who wanted to remain. It was very straightforward for me to do. Everyone was happy. 😊

Original poster
KeepSmiling89 · 15/06/2023 11:38

@caringcarer sorry, I didn't specify I was in Scotland. I really wish it was as simple as you describe. That sounds like a dream!

@Dillydollydingdong unfortunately not as simple as that as my name is still on the tenancy so I'm still (partly) responsible for paying the rent. If I stop paying and he doesn't have the means to pay, I'll be chased after. Bills, I can get sorted, but it's the rent that's the biggest issue here.

@RandomMess it's a rolling month to month tenancy. Don't think they do 10 or 6 month tenancies in Scotland anymore.

OP posts:
EliflurtleTripanInfinite · 17/06/2023 02:00

If he's applying for UC might he get a bigger amount for housing element if he's the only named tenant? Might be worth telling him if this is the case.

Original poster
KeepSmiling89 · 27/06/2023 10:42

Latest Update!
So, a couple of weeks ago, I put in a request to cancel the TV license as it was in my name and I'm not wanting to pay for a TV license for a property I'm not living in anymore. Also gave 1 months' notice to cancel our Sky subscription.
Looks like the TV license has been cancelled as ex got a letter in the post saying the property was no longer covered. I told him what I'd done and, last night alone, I had 20 missed calls (8 declined and 12 blocked as I just couldn't take it anymore), 2 voicemails (one saying how nasty I am and he's going to contact a solicitor - he's threatened me with this before but never acted on it!) and a few texts/FB messages saying DD won't have any TV for a while and that he can't even use the internet, which he needs for the Job Centre.

Pretty sure 20 missed/blocked/declined calls would be evidence of harassment? Phoning my solicitor today!

OP posts:
Original poster
KeepSmiling89 · 27/06/2023 10:49

Oh, also, one of the messages he sent said he was going to keep phoning until I answered him and that I had to stop being a coward and take responsibility for my actions!

OP posts:
caringcarer · 27/06/2023 11:19

He needs to accept if he wants to watch TV he pays for a licence. If he wants Sky he has to pay for that too. Get your name off all bills including gas, electricity and water. He needs to pay for his own usage. You will so clearly be better off once divorced from this cocklodger.

sobeyondthehills · 27/06/2023 11:26

I am not sure it would be acceptable, but could you go to the agents and say you have moved out, but understand the rules, but in the meantime, you will pay your half of the rent for x amount of time and get it in writing, but that as your ex is still living in the property, he should be paying the full amount.

Otherwise you could be tied to that contract for ages, if he doesnt agree to end it.

The only other option would be to default on the rent, get him evicted, but then that would screw up your credit rating and any chance to get another private rental

SheilaFentiman · 27/06/2023 11:32

Well done for cancelling the sky and the tv. He can use the internet on his phone or at a library or community center !

Im99912 · 27/06/2023 11:48

How old is he
because i think ( not sure ) if he is under 35 the housing element of UC won’t pay all of the rent unless he is getting ESA element and is unable to work because if health issues

the amount for rent for a single person under 35 is something like £80 a week or less basically the cost of a single room

Original poster
KeepSmiling89 · 27/06/2023 12:08

@sobeyondthehills - that's the only thing stopping me from just not paying rent anymore. I'm looking to save for my own house so any 'black marks' on my record won't look good when I go looking for a mortgage.
It's sickening as I'm still paying for the rent, gas, electricity, internet (all on the same bill from same provider) and his mobile. I thought the TV license and Sky would be the least of his worries!

@SheilaFentiman - exactly! He just can't watch, download or stream anything live or record anything live. He's got a wealth of DVDs he can watch as well so not short of anything if he just wants to sit around watching TV all day (I wouldn't put it past him to be honest!)

@Im99912 He's 52 - no excuse to not be working or at least looking for work (which I'm pretty sure he hasn't done since I left) and using our DD as an excuse to not work as he just wants to be a SAHD.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/06/2023 12:53

You need to tell the utility providers you do not live there anymore and they need to go and take final readings as you can't get access.

Seriously paying rent is one thing, the rest is ridiculous.

RandomMess · 27/06/2023 12:55

There is nothing to stop him running up huge gas and electric bills to spite you so you need those meter readings urgently and pay the contract fee if required to get off that bill. You can switch it to where you live as an option.

AP5Diva · 27/06/2023 12:59

KeepSmiling89 · 15/06/2023 10:25

Thank you for all your replies.
The lettings manager I spoke with earlier this week was in touch with the Scottish Association of Landlords (SAL) and confirmed that both tenants have to give written notice to terminate the lease. Our tenancy agreement says:
24. ENDING THE TENANCY

This tenancy may be ended by:

(i) The Tenant giving notice to the Landlord;
• the Tenant giving the Landlord at least 28 days' notice in writing to terminate the tenancy, or any other minimum notice period as otherwise validly agreed between the Landlord and Tenant. Where the Landlord and Tenant agree to a notice period other than 28 days' notice, such agreement must be in writing. The tenancy will come to an end on the date specified in the notice. To end a joint tenancy, all the Joint Tenants must agree to end the tenancy. One Joint Tenant cannot terminate the joint tenancy on behalf of all Joint Tenants.

She has said I can go through the courts via Matrimonial Homes Act or just wait to find out when he'll be in a position to apply for a single tenancy with a guarantor if he's not working (with the way he's behaving, he's very unlikely to have someone willing to be a guarantor).

This is if it is done unilaterally, as in even if the landlord doesn’t want the tenants to stop the tenancy.

If you, him and the landlord agree, the current tenancy can be broken and a new one imitated with just your ex as sole tenant.