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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Is DH being coercive and abusive?

88 replies

FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 05:56

It’s early and I have been up most of the night thinking about the way DH behaves. I would value a MN perspective on this.

Things have not been good between DH and I for well over a year. We have been together for several decades. Our sex life has been pretty minimal recently mainly because he is being so moody and nasty I find it a complete turn off. We have been trying to talk about how we make things better as we as we both feel we have lost our emotional connection.

My problem is that I am feeling more and more as though I am in an abusive relationship. When we argue, DH will constantly turn things back on me, picking up things I did over 20 years ago and throwing them back at me. These are trivial things, the normal irritations of life. For example, he is upset because I once laughed at a line in a TV show from over a year ago which he thought I shouldn’t have done and it upset him because at some other time I said something which indicated I didn’t find jokes like that funny, and so I am not consistent. To be honest I can’t remember the line, or why I laughed.

He says I am to blame for his low mood as he can’t be himself. He wants to be aggressive, which I don’t like. He has recently raised how he feels rejected because I won’t do a specific sex act with him. It isn’t anything unusual, it just isn’t for me, I have done it with him and told him that I didn’t enjoy it. He feels rejected by it and said a while ago that because I won’t do it, then I am putting barriers up to emotional connection. This feels desperately unfair, and I can’t get it out of my head. It feels like coercion, in that if I want emotional connection then I must do what he wants in bed. Am I overreacting on this?

The lack of sleep is probably making my thinking erratic, but I feel as though a line has been crossed.

OP posts:
Reugny · 02/06/2023 09:12

FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 07:25

@unsync and @wildfirewonder - You are both right and I need to trust myself to look after myself. I find it hard to understand how it got to this. I am a grown woman with a job and I would never take this kind of thing at work. I guess it is different with a personal relationship.

Think of the boiled frog.

INeedAnotherName · 02/06/2023 09:20

The cycle of bringing things up, and then extreme kindness because he's worried about me happens around every 4 - 6 weeks. I had started keeping a diary a couple of years ago when I felt things weren't going well, and looking back at it I can see how it has escalated.

Oh OP....please read your about cycles of abuse and the boiled frog analogy. It's him not you. He will never change and you will end up this little squished frightened thing unable to breathe. Get out now.

Truestorypeeps · 02/06/2023 10:17

Looking back on his life, it sounds like he's unsatisfied and he's blaming you and this is causing his resentment. He needs to take some responsibility for it himself and do some self-reflection.

Instead of getting hung up about and living in the past, he needs to be at peace with it, it's happened, it can't be changed and then look to the present and the future and work out what he could change to make himself happy (including his attitude). Maybe he needs to also get some perspective - appreciate the things he does have which many people do not, this could be material things like a roof over his head, hot food, and also the fact that he has his health (AFAIK).

You could tell him that you'll do what you can to help but he is responsible for his own happiness, not you. And if he continues to drag up the past, you WILL NOT be part of his future.

Truestorypeeps · 02/06/2023 10:18

For what it's worth, mine is a male, late 30's take on this.

JJ8765 · 02/06/2023 10:41

My ExH changed too. For him it was boredom with the demands of parenting and him wanting his old life back - hobbies, sexlife. Like you I didn’t want to have sex with a nasty angry resentful man and I couldn’t just flick a switch and forget how he had treated me when he decided he wanted to have sex. I think there is a middle age crisis in terms of ‘is this it’. ExH largely walked away from parenting - he is the Disney dad but does no heavy lifting. He’s reliving his 20’s, dating, gigs etc. He hadn’t met someone else when we split. I ended it. I think he was being vile so I would end it and he wouldn’t have to take responsibility. His behaviour is similar in that I often wondered if he was depressed. He seems to be generally angry when he didn’t used to be. He cannot take any criticism and will still now turn things round on me (we have ongoing contact due to dc) even when he is clearly the problem. I think most romantic relationships have a shelf life and yours has expired and he is provoking you to end it. Many men seem to get grumpier the older they get so I don’t imagine this will get better. He has to want to change his behaviour and if he was depressed and didn’t want to lose you he would be seeking help. Get out before it pulls you down mentally too.

Povertytrapped · 02/06/2023 10:49

Whilst you still have some clarity on this @FightingOnwards I think you’d best be thinking about getting out. The aggression, the sex pressure, blaming you for stuff you can’t even remember (and thus can’t refute), making you responsible for his emotions, and then the cyclical nice/nasty…these are all the early signs of worse abuse to come, and they’re bad enough on their own.

I would ask for a trial separation and see how that goes…it is extremely hard to leave someone whilst you still love them (I know because I’ve just done it), but if you don’t, you risk getting more drawn in to his screwed up version of reality.

If you insist on a separation you’ll very quickly both know what you want…and he’ll either get help to sort himself out so you can try again, or he won’t. And you will either feel free and relieved, or you’ll also want to sort it out.

Be brave dear girl, now is the time to think only if what you want/need.

pickledandpuzzled · 02/06/2023 10:57

He's unhappy, you're unhappy. Time to call it a day. Time for you both to realise that if he wants a good marriage he needs to behave like a decent husband and be nice to his wife. If he doesn't want a marriage then there's nothing you can do to change that.

It's all in his hands, get out of his way.

I mean that in a kind, empowering way by the way! It's a no guilt recognition of the situation that allows you to stop trying to appease a nasty bloke and let him decide whether to return to the husband you fell for, or continue as a nasty Andrew Tate wannabe.

Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 11:17

@Truestorypeeps - I think you summarised his feelings very well. He has so much to be thankful for.

OP posts:
Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 11:57

@JJ8765 - I'm sorry you found yourself in the same position. I do wonder how much is mental health but he can't take it out on me. Regardless of whether he means to or not he is pushing me out.

OP posts:
Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 11:59

@Povertytrapped - thank you, the last sentence really gave me a lift. What you say is very true and a trial separation seems like a good idea.

OP posts:
Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 11:59

pickledandpuzzled · 02/06/2023 10:57

He's unhappy, you're unhappy. Time to call it a day. Time for you both to realise that if he wants a good marriage he needs to behave like a decent husband and be nice to his wife. If he doesn't want a marriage then there's nothing you can do to change that.

It's all in his hands, get out of his way.

I mean that in a kind, empowering way by the way! It's a no guilt recognition of the situation that allows you to stop trying to appease a nasty bloke and let him decide whether to return to the husband you fell for, or continue as a nasty Andrew Tate wannabe.

Post taken in the spirit in which it was intended!

OP posts:
Netcam · 02/06/2023 12:02

piedbeauty · 02/06/2023 06:40

I'd have sole counselling, not joint. Joint is not recommended in an abusive relationship. With your h acting this way, I'm not sure what you'd get out of it. Better to have counselling so YOU can work out what you want to do.

Agree with a pp that blaming you for his moods is bad.

Agree with this.

Hazelnuttella · 02/06/2023 12:07

I wouldn’t be able to get past him bringing up the sex act thing more than once.

He knows you don’t enjoy it. But he still wants you to agree to it. So he’d be happy doing it with you while knowing you weren’t enjoying it. That’s horrible.

I think a trial separation would be a good thing OP. You deserve to be happy and relaxed and not tiptoe around someone.

Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 12:45

Reugny · 02/06/2023 09:11

Is he taking any supplements or powders?

They are unregulated so some contain steroids.

Show quote history

The only ones I see are the normal multi-vitamin type things from Boots, but that isn't to say he isn't taking anything else.

OP posts:
Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 12:46

Hazelnuttella · 02/06/2023 12:07

I wouldn’t be able to get past him bringing up the sex act thing more than once.

He knows you don’t enjoy it. But he still wants you to agree to it. So he’d be happy doing it with you while knowing you weren’t enjoying it. That’s horrible.

I think a trial separation would be a good thing OP. You deserve to be happy and relaxed and not tiptoe around someone.

It is that more than any of the other bad behaviour which seems to have really got to me. How can you want the person you love to do something so intimate when you know they don't want to?

OP posts:
BetterFuture1985 · 02/06/2023 12:49

Coercive, I would probably say no. For it to be coercive, it would need to be a deliberate strategy to make you behave in a certain way whereas this seems more like "end of relationship" antagonism. If we go further and ask is this coercive control in the criminal sense, not so far as your original post or follow ups suggest. Certain conditions in the prosecuting guidelines are not present.

Abusive, yes, but I'll caveat that with the problem that this is based on a post on the internet from only one of the parties. It sounds more like the abuse of someone exiting a relationship than abuse in the sense of someone trying to condition you to behave in a certain way.

stayathomer · 02/06/2023 12:52

I’m going to go against the grain and say it just sounds like you’re both arguing the way couples do when they’re having problems? Is that abusive? I don’t know, I don’t think any of us do unless we hear/see the argument

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 02/06/2023 13:01

You see, I don't think the 'harking back to something you did wrong 20 years ago in a current argument' is natural or fine. I think it goes hand in hand with keeping on nagging about the sex act he wants but knows you hate. I think both of these things show that he remembers little things that niggle him, he can't let go. He dwells on what he considers to be past wrongs and past irritations, rather than dealing with them and having them over.

It's the mark of a man who actively seeks things to be angry about, for me.

Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 13:08

@BetterFuture1985 and @stayathomer - you both make really good points. I think what made me wonder about coercion was his statement that we can't be fully emotionally connected unless I do what he wants in bed. Perhaps it isn't a textbook definition of abuse or coercion, but is isn't very nice, so perhaps it doesn't matter either way.

OP posts:
Original poster
FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 13:10

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 02/06/2023 13:01

You see, I don't think the 'harking back to something you did wrong 20 years ago in a current argument' is natural or fine. I think it goes hand in hand with keeping on nagging about the sex act he wants but knows you hate. I think both of these things show that he remembers little things that niggle him, he can't let go. He dwells on what he considers to be past wrongs and past irritations, rather than dealing with them and having them over.

It's the mark of a man who actively seeks things to be angry about, for me.

He does seem to like to be angry now. He definitely can't let go of past mistakes and I don't know what he thinks will happen by being them up repeatedly. Nobody can change the past.

OP posts:
pikkumyy77 · 02/06/2023 13:14

Coercive control vs abusive end of relationship arguing is a distinction that makes no difference. (Replying to a poster upthread). Both behaviors are toxic and detrimental to the OP and to a healthy marriage.

OP I really hope you are sustained by all the wonderful advice and support here and that you can ignore the minimizers and logic choppers whose advice would leave you as unhappy as your marriage is.

Angry, dissatisfied people who can’t be happy in the relationship can’t BE in a relationship. They turn their anger on you because they hate their life and they fear making change and taking risks to leave. Either he is stuck and can’t get out or he’s on the way out and lashing out to excuse his own actions. Either way you need to protect yourself.

wishing you all the best and a bright, bright future.

Bluebells1970 · 02/06/2023 13:17

There's a much used phrase on MN that "women aren't rehab centres for men".
Who gives a shit what his problems are - and they're not yours to fix for him.

Honestly, he sounds like a keg of dynamite ready to explode. And I'd want to be long gone before he does.

BetterFuture1985 · 02/06/2023 13:27

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 02/06/2023 13:01

You see, I don't think the 'harking back to something you did wrong 20 years ago in a current argument' is natural or fine. I think it goes hand in hand with keeping on nagging about the sex act he wants but knows you hate. I think both of these things show that he remembers little things that niggle him, he can't let go. He dwells on what he considers to be past wrongs and past irritations, rather than dealing with them and having them over.

It's the mark of a man who actively seeks things to be angry about, for me.

I agree with you to the extent I find it odd, but it sits in a grey area for me somewhere between coercive and abusive but not quite meeting the standard for either.

BetterFuture1985 · 02/06/2023 13:38

FightingOnwards · 02/06/2023 13:08

@BetterFuture1985 and @stayathomer - you both make really good points. I think what made me wonder about coercion was his statement that we can't be fully emotionally connected unless I do what he wants in bed. Perhaps it isn't a textbook definition of abuse or coercion, but is isn't very nice, so perhaps it doesn't matter either way.

Well, unfortunately couples who have been together for a long time do argue about sex. Couples also both have opinions about what they want and are more likely to express them in long term relationships. It might not be pleasant but for it to be coercive it would have to be "repeated" and "continuous" and it would have to have a "significant impact" on you.

I think there is a growing misunderstanding of the difference between a relationship ending on the one hand and coercion and abuse on the other. People are not always cordial to one another when a relationship is dying and as @pikkumyy77 says, both behaviours are toxic. Nevertheless, they are not the same. You can't label someone as "coercive" or "abusive" for having a different opinion to you or expressing that opinion in a way you don't like. If they were trying to convince you of their opinion in a different way, through force, bullying, gaslighting or the like that would be a different matter.

Ragruggers · 02/06/2023 14:13

Tell him you are not happy and you want a separation.Life is short why suffer like this.Yes it will be hard and strange but you will be able to heal and have a happier life.Start writing down everything that causes you this distress.He May be shocked or happy to go along with it who knows but you need to be apart.Good luck you can do this.