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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Right of first refusal childcare

72 replies

NeedSleepNow · 22/05/2023 17:16

My ex is pushing for right of first refusal if I am ever needing someone to look after the children, even if just for 1 hour. Surely this is madness and just another method of control if I can't ask a friend to have the kids for 30 minutes after school if I'm stuck at work etc. I don't go out in the evening, don't go for weekends away, so never organise babysitters but he hates that I have asked my sister in the past to look after the kids for a few hours at a time. Has anyone else been in the same situation? How on earth can it work? I just don't want him to still have this level of control in our lives going forward, when I can't even ask a friend to look after the kids for an hour.

OP posts:
HereForTheFreeLunch · 22/05/2023 17:24

No advice, sorry. But it sounds horrendous.

millymollymoomoo · 22/05/2023 17:27

I would not agree to that

totally unnecessary

ladykale · 22/05/2023 17:29

Why is it such a bad thing if he's a non-resident parent?

Surely it's good that he spends more time with his kids, but you need to specify that it only applies if he lives a certain distance from you.

Will be provide reliable childcare in that case or just spitefully mess up your plans?

Wonderingifitstimetogo · 22/05/2023 17:29

Nope your time is your time and it has nothing to do with him. Its nice if you can ask your ex to cover it if needed if thats the kind of relationship you have but if its not then he has no right to ask for this.

Besides I sometimes babysit my nephew just because I want to spend time with him not because my sister needs me too. Why shouldnt your sister get time with your children?

He sounds incredibly controlling

llamallama6384 · 22/05/2023 17:35

ladykale · 22/05/2023 17:29

Why is it such a bad thing if he's a non-resident parent?

Surely it's good that he spends more time with his kids, but you need to specify that it only applies if he lives a certain distance from you.

Will be provide reliable childcare in that case or just spitefully mess up your plans?

Maybe not a bad idea for some families.

This would be horrendous for many. My ex would absolutely use this as a form of control and needing to know every time I was going out.

Singlemum101 · 22/05/2023 17:36

I think it’s reasonable for him to have first right to childcare in the sense that if you’re away for work or doing overtime or at a wedding etc he gets asked over a paid babysitter.

I don’t think it’s reasonable that you can’t support your children to build a relationship with friends and family which might include spending time with them alone.

Is there any way to include the former but not the latter?

Sprogonthetyne · 22/05/2023 17:37

ladykale · 22/05/2023 17:29

Why is it such a bad thing if he's a non-resident parent?

Surely it's good that he spends more time with his kids, but you need to specify that it only applies if he lives a certain distance from you.

Will be provide reliable childcare in that case or just spitefully mess up your plans?

You don't think it would be a bad thing to have to tell you ex every single time you go anywhere without the children?

Every time you have an appointment
Every time you consider dating
Every time you meet a friend for coffee
Every time you want a break
Every time you get held up at work

I would find that controlling even in a relationship, let alone with an ex.

HowcanIhelp123 · 22/05/2023 17:39

Right of first refusal isn't that outlandish, however he's being a twat by the whole 'even one hour' thing. Anything over 3 hours or something would be more acceptable.

Soontobe60 · 22/05/2023 17:40

Sprogonthetyne · 22/05/2023 17:37

You don't think it would be a bad thing to have to tell you ex every single time you go anywhere without the children?

Every time you have an appointment
Every time you consider dating
Every time you meet a friend for coffee
Every time you want a break
Every time you get held up at work

I would find that controlling even in a relationship, let alone with an ex.

Show quote history

This absolutely. When my dd was young, if I needed childcare on my days, I would ask someone else. As a teacher, I only had my DD for 3 of the 6 weeks holiday too.

Soontobe60 · 22/05/2023 17:40

HowcanIhelp123 · 22/05/2023 17:39

Right of first refusal isn't that outlandish, however he's being a twat by the whole 'even one hour' thing. Anything over 3 hours or something would be more acceptable.

It is if hes doing it to check up on his ex.

HowcanIhelp123 · 22/05/2023 17:46

Soontobe60 · 22/05/2023 17:40

It is if hes doing it to check up on his ex.

Show quote history

Yes, which is why more like 3 hours plus is a better option, and she can ask for same in return. If its a school holiday and resident parent has work, its entirely appropriate other parent has the option to care for the child instead. It's not appropriate for every appointment, grocery run or 'oh I'm running late can you watch kid for an hour'.

Harrythehappypig · 22/05/2023 17:48

Don’t agree to his. My friend’s (also v controlling ex) was pushing for this. She had an emergency trip to hospital recently and it would have been a nightmare for her if she’d had to call him and see if he could take the DCs while waiting for the ambulance to arrive and if he couldn’t only then start looking for another option.

CombatBarbie · 22/05/2023 17:48

Does he not work that he can be with you/school within 15 mins. First refusal for going away, over 3hrs seems far more reasonable and less invasive!

Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 22/05/2023 17:52

Thank you for all your replies. Yes to me it just feels as though he is wanting to know where we all are, what I am doing when etc.

He wants to ring anytime day or night when he feels the need to talk to them. We tried rough times for calls but he refused in the end and rings over and over and over until someone answers, sometimes 20 missed calls on the mobile, landline, Alexa, kids mobiles in the space of 20 minutes when we haven't answered because we are eating dinner or in the car on the way to an activity.

He has asked for a list of where we all are and when, even when it is on my time not during holidays etc.

He is furious I won't agree to first refusal but to me it just feels like a way for him to keep control over us. I am happy to ask him to help out if something big had cropped up but I don't want this blanket ban on me asking anyone else for help, or rules on how many hours it must be after which I ask him. Surely if it is on my time I should be seen as adult enough to decide who is best placed and most appropriate to look after the kids. If it was in his time I would be more than happy for his family to help out with the kids.

OP posts:
Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 22/05/2023 17:53

Harrythehappypig · 22/05/2023 17:48

Don’t agree to his. My friend’s (also v controlling ex) was pushing for this. She had an emergency trip to hospital recently and it would have been a nightmare for her if she’d had to call him and see if he could take the DCs while waiting for the ambulance to arrive and if he couldn’t only then start looking for another option.

I was ill recently and he was really angry my family had helped look after me and the kids whilst I was ill. He wanted to be able to come over to my house and look after them whilst I am there feeling ill. That is the last thing I would have needed when trying to get better.

OP posts:
sadlittlelifejane · 22/05/2023 17:58

This is really difficult. If it were me and I missed my kids, I'd be pretty upset if my husband (ex) was shoving them into childcare or to friends to look after or whatever when I was nearby WANTING to spend time with my wonderful children. I can empathise with him.

HobnobsChoice · 22/05/2023 18:02

This isn't about him wanting to be with his kids from the sounds of it. It's purely control. 20 calls in 20 minutes to speak to them rather than agreeing a time. He is still trying to control OP and their children by deciding when they do everything according to his whims not what it best suited to the kids

Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 22/05/2023 18:04

sadlittlelifejane · 22/05/2023 17:58

This is really difficult. If it were me and I missed my kids, I'd be pretty upset if my husband (ex) was shoving them into childcare or to friends to look after or whatever when I was nearby WANTING to spend time with my wonderful children. I can empathise with him.

The thing is that I'm not shoving them in to childcare, they are at school and I only work school hours/term time. I don't go out so have never paid for a babysitter but friends do sometimes help out for an hour here or there and the kids love seeing their friends and family at times (we're talking maybe once a month for a couple of hours). I am more than happy to ask him to help but he works 45 minutes away and we are unlikely to be living very close soon so to me it seems ridiculous that I have to agree to essentially asking his permission for anyone to help me for the next 10 years or so.

I understand that he misses the kids but this sorry if arrangement just feels unworkable.

OP posts:
WheelsUp · 22/05/2023 18:07

Yanbu at all. He sounds terrifying and definitely trying to control you. Definitely ignore the advice that he should get first refusal. He just wants to know where you are, what you are doing, who you are seeing and enjoy the power of taking it away if he fancies.
If you are going to pursue a Child Arrangement Order then you can specify when he can call the kids as one of the conditions.

Original poster
NeedSleepNow · 22/05/2023 18:09

WheelsUp · 22/05/2023 18:07

Yanbu at all. He sounds terrifying and definitely trying to control you. Definitely ignore the advice that he should get first refusal. He just wants to know where you are, what you are doing, who you are seeing and enjoy the power of taking it away if he fancies.
If you are going to pursue a Child Arrangement Order then you can specify when he can call the kids as one of the conditions.

Aat the moment we aren't persuing a CAO, just a financial order although I do think we may eventually need a CAO. He hates anyone disagreeing with him or telling him what to do and I have a feeling that he will just keep pushing and pushing trying to get what he wants rather than what is best for the children.

OP posts:
RemainAtHome · 22/05/2023 18:12

sadlittlelifejane · 22/05/2023 17:58

This is really difficult. If it were me and I missed my kids, I'd be pretty upset if my husband (ex) was shoving them into childcare or to friends to look after or whatever when I was nearby WANTING to spend time with my wonderful children. I can empathise with him.

On the other side, it’s healthy fur children to spend time with other adults. People like their family - like the aunt. People like friends - such as mummy’s friends and her dcs etc….

Children are not supposed to only be with mummy and daddy and stopping them from having this experiences isn’t beneficial to them.

It’s a shame that it also means you dint get that opportunity for yourself automatically. But that’s called bring a parent. Ding stuff fur the well-being if tte child nit your self interest.

JanglyBeads · 22/05/2023 18:17

I think I read (here?) that this is a thing sometimes in the States. But no!! And certainly not with al the background you've now given OP.

It makes you much too intertwined still.

My ex tried similar, including claiming I was continually farming the children out when I barely went anywhere. Oh occasionally to accompany my dying mother to hospital appts. Hmm....

quietnightmare · 22/05/2023 18:19

'we're talking maybe once a month for a couple of hour'

If it's only that much then might not be worth arguing about

Iyiyiiii · 22/05/2023 18:22

Every time you need childcare, set it up as a playmate instead

MintJulia · 22/05/2023 18:25

HowcanIhelp123 · 22/05/2023 17:39

Right of first refusal isn't that outlandish, however he's being a twat by the whole 'even one hour' thing. Anything over 3 hours or something would be more acceptable.

This. Don't agree to anything else. Supposing you WANT your child to spend time with your mum or your sister or your best friend. Does he get to prevent that?

He's trying to interfere in your time. He needs to be told no.