Right of first refusal childcare

[NeedSleepNow]

My ex is pushing for right of first refusal if I am ever needing someone to look after the children, even if just for 1 hour. Surely this is madness and just another method of control if I can't ask a friend to have the kids for 30 minutes after school if I'm stuck at work etc. I don't go out in the evening, don't go for weekends away, so never organise babysitters but he hates that I have asked my sister in the past to look after the kids for a few hours at a time. Has anyone else been in the same situation? How on earth can it work? I just don't want him to still have this level of control in our lives going forward, when I can't even ask a friend to look after the kids for an hour.

Yup. Play dates and sleepovers

Yes, I get the impression that anytime the children are with anyone he would get to overrule it

The thing is, he essentially wants this written in stone for the next 10 or so years which I am just not happy about. I don't believe he is doing this for the children's best interests but it is more for him and he is wanting to be able to come here where I am living to look after them which I am really not comfortable with.

Thing is right of first refusal won't give him what he wants anyway. He doesn't get the right to know where you are when or call whenever he wants.

Say he has right to first refusal over 3 hours, with him having to reply within X time, you're free to leave with someone else after 15 mins. You could call him and say kids available 9am - 1pm, does he want it. You wouldn't have to tell him where you were going or why. What's he going to do? Refuse to take them? Well you get your childcare from whoever would otherwise. Not turn up? After 15 mins you text saying since he's not there so they're with your mum in Y place if he wants to pick them up.

The right is for childcare for when you aren't there. If you're ill and your family comes to stay and help? You're still there, he'd have no right to come into the house and look after the kids. Want to take the kids to see family members? You're there with them, no problem. They can go on playdates with friends/cousins if it's not for childcare. If you're available to look after them it's fine.

If its private agreement there's no need for this, if it was a CAO then if it gets put in its not the worst thing in the world if drafted properly including limits on for example over 3 hours, time limit for response, rules for him if he's late/losing the right if he renegades too much.

To be clear, he would have the right to look after the kids. He would never have the right to look after them in your house. He would have to take them elsewhere. Nothing gives him right of access to where you live. If he can't take them himself you're free to find other childcare. He'd have the right to take them himself, not veto your options you use should he not be available. Once they're old enough to be left alone the point becomes moot anyway as no childcare needed.

Our eldest is enough to be left alone but he still wants to look after him if the other kids are out with me.

How about right of first refusal for overnight childcare, for both of you. So an evening babysitting doesn’t count. Playdates don’t count. You being ill but still in the house doesn’t count - you are allowed to have your family stay over no matter what state you are in health wise.
He doesn’t get access to your house ever.
Set times for phone calls, maybe once per school week and once per weekend when they are with the other parent- for both parents. So every Friday evening and Tuesday evening the call the parent they are not with. Phone calls up to 15minutes before bedtime routine. If he misses it, too bad.
He sounds horrendous OP. I think you beed a CAO.

He still has no right to enter your home, the eldest would have to go out somewhere with your ex (which i imagine defeats the point if the eldest just cba to go out shopping with you etc and wants to stay home). If the oldest is approx 14, imagine ex turning up to court saying he wants the court to rule that you need to call him if you're leaving your 14 yo home alone and make him go out with your ex. They'd laugh him out of court, he'll look a right knobhead 😂.

I doubt he would get one anyway.. My ex farmed ours out or left them home alone.. Court wasn't interest I tried to argue it and have them instead...

How much time is he getting at the moment?

Every other weekend, and one evening mid week each week for dinner, facetime calls roughly 4 times a week and he often turns up at the house on my weekends with them (he is still legally part owner so can unfortunately do this). More contact during the holidays but no set pattern then.

I think this is a decent plan.

First refusal for overnight care seems reasonable, but anything less than that is just giving him the ability to control and monitor your life.

Sort out the house thing and make it clear that he doesn’t get access to your house.

I would be happier to agree to it for overnight stays only, that seems like a more Denstone and workable plan than just saying I will ask him anytime that I need someone to watch the kids for any length of time.

I have only ever stayed overnight somewhere without the kids once in the last 14 years so I am unlikely to have this issue any time soon. If it were, I would be happy to ask ex to have the kids ab extra night rather than get a babysitter or leave them with family.

What if they wanted a sleepover at my sister's or Mum's though? Would that be allowed or not as technically I would still be available to have them and would just be letting them spend time with their wider family.

I agree with him. I always asked ex first if childcare was needed. Always better to be with a parent where possible.

First refusal for overnight care us an issue Imo.

As @NeedSleepNow said, what about if the spend the weekend with ther grand parents, is that not allowed?
What about if the OP is going in the evening abd comes back to her sister house? The dcs are ‘babysitter’ by her sister whilst she is out and then they are altogether, should he get ´first refusal’ then too?

This will be giving him ammunition’s to control the OP and what she does of her evenings and weekends and this is not ok.
It will also stop the dcs from seeing her side if the family and this is ALSO not ok.

@NeedSleepNow , I wouldn’t go with an arrangement like this. By any means, if at one time, they would be better spending the night with him, then great. But it should be YOUR choice. You should stay in control of that. Otherwise, he is going to walk all over you yet again,

Better than a brand parent or an aunt, cousins etc…?

Always better than spending time with other family members?

It is strange to me than stopping children from spending time with their close family is seeing as a good thing.

It seems reasonable for planned childcare, but be clear that this doesn't apply to short notice short care situations eg running late from work.

In reverse it's exactly what I would want too

First refusal for overnights where you can't look after them yourself seems fair.

This is different to overnights where you could look after them but they've gone to see relatives during your contact time.

I agree. I think it should be about balance. If I were swanning off for nights away with a new partner on my time with the children, leaving them with family/friends that would be a very different situation to me going for a meal with friends once every 4 months and my sister coming to my home to look after the kids for 4 hours, and then me returning home. It is good for them to spend some time with other family and bond with them, without me or ex there.

Absolutely refuse to engage with this nonsense. It's purely controlling, nosey and invasive behaviour. If you're stuck you could ask, but personally I really, really wouldn't. No good can come of it, it will just make him feel validated in his attempts to control you.

I know. I agree with everything you have said to be fair. Although I empathise with him I also would never agree to it. What a pain in the arse. Hopefully it never happens!

After reading all your posts you seem level headed. It's great that your allowing phone contact. Scheduled time for calls is difficult. I'm all for boundaries so if he is calling at an inconvient time just quickly text him and say ' currently having tea, will call after' and just follow through with that. You have to play your card firm but fair to reduce stress I. Your life and at the end of the day this is going to go on for a while so make it as easy for yourself and children as you can

If your going on a night away then absolutely he needs to get the option first

If it's a half hour here or and hour there then no. He won't even know because there's no need to tell him. And they are just spending time with 'friends' or 'other family members'

If your off for the whole afternoon on a Saturday on your weekend then yeah sure why not give him the option

I think this is a balanced and fair and SENSIBLE way forward.

Sounds like you need to get an occupation order so sure he could have the kids if you were planning to arrange CHILDCARE (not a play date or sleepover) but not in your HOME.

If you were going away for a night with friends and you asked him to have the children, do you think he would sabotage it, so you didn't get to go away? My ex would have done (and did, when I was actually married to him 🙄). That would be my concern.

It's a nice idea with a non-controlling, decent co-parent, but not with an ex who wants to control your life, even when you are no longer together.

I don't think he would sobbatage it, no. One of my concerns would be say if I needed help for a few hours one Saturday morning, rather than dropping them back at lunch he would either come back and sit around for hours refusing to leave (unfortunately he is still legally joint owner of the fmh where I am living with the kids so frequently does this) or he would just decide to have them all day and evening. The kids struggle with a change in routine as their relationship with him hasn't been that great over the years so I do try to stick to a routine with contact as much as possible.