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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

Child Maintenance

81 replies

Another2022 · 18/04/2023 11:32

But if background - left my wife in Oct 2021. She’s still in the family home (owned outright, no mortgage). We haven’t even started talking about a financial arrangement but should be starting in our second mediation session next week.

I’ve paid maintenance via her bills to a value equal to the CMS calculator since I bought a house in April last year. I was paying more before that as I couldn’t have the kids that much living with my parents.

since getting my place I’ve had the kids 6/14 days (4 under 13 years old). I’d like to have them 7/14 but ex won’t allow it.

My problem is my parents helped my out a bit with money but that money is now running out. After bills I’ve got around £450 (depending on my on call hours and call-outs) which is just about enough to live on keeping around £50/m to save up for big bills like insurance.

My ex won’t let me know anything about her finances so have no idea what money she has after bills. If she insists on maintenance rather than letting me looking after the kids half the time, what can I do? If she wants to keep getting £420/month I’m pretty screwed and it would probably result in me having to sell the house I bought that me and the kids have made a home.

If, after bills we’re left with similar amounts and she won’t let me take more care of the kids (it’s essentially two Sunday nights a month 6pm - school the next morning) would it be reasonable if me to ask not to give her the £420? I’ll still continue to pay for some stuff like her internet, phones and a few subscriptions).

In a bit of a tight spot but don’t want to be a doc about it!

OP posts:
Hotvimto3 · 18/04/2023 13:09

Another2022 · 18/04/2023 12:38

Yes, the two Sunday nights would bring it up to 7/14.

It’s expensive as it’s 4 kids and cms is banded so even if I only had the 4/14 then it would be the same due.

And yes, when they’re with me I pay for everything. TBF ex usually gets the branded school uniform but she tells me and I send her half the money. I also do (and pay for) out of school activities and clothes/shoes for them here, pocket money and yeh just everything they do with me. They get free school meals cos she’s on benefits (no idea how much) but so packed lunches when they want one. And yeh, I cover sickness and take them to dentists when it’s on my days or ex is at work as my work is more flexible than hers.

In our first mediation session, and since I got this house, I asked for 50/50. She said she wants to reduce time here!

Kids seem happy enough with the living arrangements, most of the time the changeover is after school so less noticeable. It’s not one week here and one week there. It’s settled into a routine now.

Then you clearly earn a fair bit. £450 CM

CM is 19% of your take home pay reduced by 50% for 174 nights care plus an extra £7 a week reduction for each child.

So ball park £450 is about 8% of your wages each month.

Youve made a mistake with your finances and now the wife and kids have to make changes/sacrifices.

If she is on Benefits there isnt a hope in hell that she has 'the same left over as me' after bills. To get free school meals you need to earn under £16k.
Even with universal credit top up she wont be getting much more than 400- 500 a month.
So £1200 wages plus £500 universal credit = £1700 max!

I think you have ballsed up your finances and now need everyone else to accomodate this.

Hotvimto3 · 18/04/2023 13:11

SavBlancTonight · 18/04/2023 12:44

If you're happy for her to live in the house rent free, then that should be taken into account in mediation and should be in the contract.

eg, you'll pay no maintenance but she can live rent free in the house. basic maintenance is on her but major maintenance/repairs split 50/50. She has to sell, or pay you out your share at the point at which the youngest leaves school.

I think unless there's far more to this than you're saying, any mediator would encourage her to go for that as it's a lot less difficult than her having to free up the capital for the house now and pay you out simply so she can continue to get £420/month from you for the 2 days a month she has the kids more than you.

I agree

Original poster
Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:12

Interesting idea, sounds a bit messy tho. I guess we could have an arrangements where she pays that equity back to me over x amount of years and then the house is hers or when she comes to sell then she’s already paid a load of it back. Thanks, didn’t think of it like that. That would probably cover the maintenance though I’d lose a decent chunk of the equity when she did decide to sell or kids got old enough. Still, would keep the kids nice and settled.

OP posts:
Hotvimto3 · 18/04/2023 13:14

Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:12

Interesting idea, sounds a bit messy tho. I guess we could have an arrangements where she pays that equity back to me over x amount of years and then the house is hers or when she comes to sell then she’s already paid a load of it back. Thanks, didn’t think of it like that. That would probably cover the maintenance though I’d lose a decent chunk of the equity when she did decide to sell or kids got old enough. Still, would keep the kids nice and settled.

No i think you would lose all of the equity. The equity is in place of child maintenance

Original poster
Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:15

I earn £2300 (+~ £150 for on call some months) after tax and pensions so £450 certainly isn’t 8%!

OP posts:
HamsterOfDoom · 18/04/2023 13:18

Do you have the children during the days as well, and would you if you went 50/50?

As in, do you have them 40% of the time for the 13 weeks a year school holidays, for emergencies, inset days, bank holidays, school events during the day etc?

I ask because I notice you mentioned nights. My ex was convinced that he should have an extra “night” for 50/50 maintenance despite only having them for two weeks a year of school holidays (which he wouldn’t commit to until the last minute) and none of the above.

Expecting them to be dropped to him between 3-5 in the school holidays and other days off, and for me to pay for all the holiday childcare etc.

HamsterOfDoom · 18/04/2023 13:19

and sickness of course, when they are off school, can’t believe I forgot that one!

spring78 · 18/04/2023 13:21

This is how much you need to pay

Child Maintenance
HamsterOfDoom · 18/04/2023 13:21

Also, child maintenance percentage only goes up to three children, so you are effectively not paying towards the forth, it’s capped at the percentage for three children.

Original poster
Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:21

Yes I do…although ex works at a school and so has holidays off. I never ask her to have them in holidays but if I’m working from home whilst the kids are here and she wants to take them out I don’t say no…but she’s the one who asks, the only time I’ve asked was when I was properly ill. I do the same for her if she’s ill or needs a favour.

OP posts:
Original poster
Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:23

How did you get that @spring78 ? I put in £41k yearly then filled it in for the 4 kids and got a different, higher amount.

OP posts:
HamsterOfDoom · 18/04/2023 13:25

Well that sounds fair enough

arethereanyleftatall · 18/04/2023 13:26

You've done this all the wrong way round. Form E, financial disclosure and consent order should have all been done before buying a house. You have got a mortgage without knowing what your maintenance will be. You can't just say, oh I've bought a house now so can't afford the kids I had any more.
The reality is this is going to be incredibly tight for both of you. One £41k salary plus one NMW part time salary funding two households and 4 kids is always going to be exceptionally difficult. You're right you won't be able to afford court, so I'd get on with the mediation, which will be your cheapest route to getting her formE.

Mari9999 · 18/04/2023 13:26

@Another2022
The payments of rent would be payment for use of your ownership portion. It would not be an equity payment. You would still be entitled to your full equity share when the property is sold.

Assuming that you both own equal shares in the home, she is using your share as well as hers . It is for that usage that she would be paying you. Had you both moved out and decided to rent the property to a tenant, you each would be entitled to 50 percent of that shared revenue, and your equity in the property would not be impacted.

She is staying in the home and as such you cannot live in the home. She is using your share of the value and the rent would be compensation for that usage.

Fluffyhoglets · 18/04/2023 13:33

Running your figures through on £2300 take home and 4 kids staying between 4-6 nights a week and your payment should be £250.
So alot less than you currently pay. So xhange it to right amount.
But you were wrong to buy a house you can only afford if you stop paying any CMS at all.
And your comment about her working in a school 9-3 to maximise benefits is a bit judgemental too as those are generally the hours for school jobs. And she needs to be there for the children after school I assume.

Original poster
Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:37

Yes, it was a risk doing it this way round but it was the quickest way for it all to settle down after I left and was best, I believe, for the kids. It will be tight, but unlikely unmanageable, for both of us until we can both increase our incomes. If the family home wasn’t mortgage free it would have been very different.

Ok, so saying she pays half the going rate for renting a similar property where we live. Just checked Rightmove and apart from being sod all on there the going rate for a 4 bed in a shitty area a mile away is over £1000/month! Obviously I wouldn’t ask her to pay me but it’s a very good way of putting it to her to not ask me for too much. Thanks

OP posts:
Hotvimto3 · 18/04/2023 13:38

Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:15

I earn £2300 (+~ £150 for on call some months) after tax and pensions so £450 certainly isn’t 8%!

Then your calculations are completely wrong

Original poster
Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:39

It’s not between 4-6 nights a week, it averages at 3. Wasn’t meant to judgemental, lots of people do it and she might be caught in a benefits trap.

OP posts:
Fluffyhoglets · 18/04/2023 13:44

Ah ok. My calculations are wrong then but I see someone else better than me has run it through and its still less than you're paying.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/04/2023 13:44

Op, sorry if I missed this but do you both own the marital house 50/50?

Fluffyhoglets · 18/04/2023 13:46

Working school hours term time also helps with holiday childcare for her and you by the sounds of things.

Original poster
Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:46

It’s all in my name (bought with inheritance) but I’m treating it as 50/50.

OP posts:
amiold · 18/04/2023 13:47

Just sell the family home and then you both have money to buy homes/care for your kids. As long as you give what the cms calculate. You have to think about yourself too, although this is Mumsnet and you'd be led to believe you shouldn't have any money or food for yourself and provide for your ex.

ArcticSkewer · 18/04/2023 13:47

Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:37

Yes, it was a risk doing it this way round but it was the quickest way for it all to settle down after I left and was best, I believe, for the kids. It will be tight, but unlikely unmanageable, for both of us until we can both increase our incomes. If the family home wasn’t mortgage free it would have been very different.

Ok, so saying she pays half the going rate for renting a similar property where we live. Just checked Rightmove and apart from being sod all on there the going rate for a 4 bed in a shitty area a mile away is over £1000/month! Obviously I wouldn’t ask her to pay me but it’s a very good way of putting it to her to not ask me for too much. Thanks

I really wouldn't suggest this to her, for a million different reasons.

If you are having problems with 50:50 and can't stand up to her on that or negotiate a lower monthly payment, this would really be a provocative step!

Just do the form E's, get both pensions valued, decide what the split will be and how you will arrange that (give her more equity in exchange for no claim on your pension?) and then sort the maintenance. Meanwhile if you want 50:50 then you should push for it!

You keeping half the house might not do her any favours. She might be entitled to more anyway right now if the kids are young and not currently 50:50 with you, she may have less pension, she may not be able to buy you out or get a mortgage when 10 years older. For women it is usually considered a bad deal to try to keep the marital home - better to sell.

arethereanyleftatall · 18/04/2023 13:51

Another2022 · 18/04/2023 13:46

It’s all in my name (bought with inheritance) but I’m treating it as 50/50.

Then it may well be this house that should be sold then to release your half of the money to keep yours.

Either way op, you need to beg borrow or steal the money to get on with form E etc and mediation as soon as you possibly can.