Financial disclosure

[HELPNEEDHELP12398765]

I would really like some advice please, I have name changed for this. Is there anyway I won't have to provide 12 months worth of bank statements for all my accounts?

I had a £4.5k squirriled away as an emergency fund as things had been difficult at home for a long time. My husband and I always had very seperate finances, with household bills coming from the joint account, which my husband paid a set amount into each month to cover. Everything else stayed in his personal account. From my part time wages I paid for everything for the kids from my personal account, my car, my phone etc.

The savings I had didn't come from the joint account. I had a bit of a side hustle going on, nothing illegal but not something my husband would approve of and I made some money. I had this in a separate account and added money that I got given as birthday/Christmas gifts to it, along with money I made completing surveys, selling things on ebay etc. The money has already been spent on paying off my debts and on paying Household bills after we separated so the account only has pennies left in it.

I really don't want him to see the bank statements for this account. He will be furious that I was building an emergency fund that he knew nothing about and try to use it against me, particularly how some of the money was made. I don't care about the money. I haven't spent it on designer clothes, holidays etc. It has paid off my credit card, bought food and clothes for the kids and paid the heating bills.

I was thinking it was 6 months statements needed in which case that would be OK as there is no money in the account and hasn't been for some time but 12 months and he will see it all. I am really panicked now, our relationship was rocky and money was always a tricky subject. I feel sick at the thought of this all.

Does he have savings? How much equity in the pot?

When I got divorced £4.5k would have made a big difference as my ex dragged things out for 4 years, if yours is spent on everyday expenses he's not really got much to moan about

We don't really have much in the way of assets, just the equity in the house. No joint savings and pensions are unlikely to be worth a lot

Lots of men have more in their pensions than equity in the house . Often their wives know nothing about it.

The last time I said this to a fellow Mumsnetter she assured me that she was absolutely certain that their only assets were £250k in the house. And that her husband wasn’t smart enough to have hidden money or accounts. She said that they had been hard up for years - she

had stopped getting her hair coloured because they couldn’t afford it and she was struggling to pay off a credit card debt and put petrol in the car.

Turns out that their house had £350k equity and her husband had £650k in pensions that she knew nothing about.

It seems you are still frightened of his judgement and power. You weren't doing anything illegal, it doesn't matter that he would disapprove it won't affect how much of the time the DC are with you.

If he won't be amicable over child arrangements they will end up in court and Cafcass and judge won't be interested.

Sorting child arrangements is separate to the financials so perhaps push to get the child arrangements agreed and approved first?

Keep quiet. Dont mention this account.
My ex lied through his teeth during financial disclosure and I knew it. My lawyers still said it wasn't worth trying to prove it and the nudge may not allow any evidence I presented.
So just keep schtum.

If you close that account can you still get the records?

You shouldn't be afraid of him but I understand how he will make life difficult for you

@Theunamedcat

If you close that account can you still get the records?

You shouldn't be afraid of him but I understand how he will make life difficult for you

Yes for 6 of 7 years after closing I think.

Can I just clarify: you have a joint account and you also both have personal accounts, one of which (of yours) he will suggest in Form E exchanges that he knows nothing about?

Of course he knew about it! It's where you put your PayPal / eBay money, and put aside cash you made from your various sales etc... disclose it. It's his word against yours that he didn't know about it - he must have forgotten about it because you most definitely talked about it when you set it up all those years ago, as a safety net so you didn't have to give out your "main" personal account when dealing with "customers".

It's not difficult to believe - you protected yourself and the money has now gone. I imagine he's got accounts you were unaware of too.

I think you'll have to disclose it. It won't make a difference to the outcome as the money isn't there now, but I get that him being able to see it will cause problems for you.
I think your only option is to drag it out so that when you do disclose, he won't see anything that he complain about.

Though: be aware than he can ask for earlier statements. I knew mine had been delaying for a reason - he had been hiding things and spending on nice holidays despite pleading poverty, so I asked for earlier statements, and got them.

Sorry you are in this position and I hope you can find your way through. One day you will be free of him, hold onto that thought.

@GenderAtheist

We don't really have much in the way of assets, just the equity in the house. No joint savings and pensions are unlikely to be worth a lot

Lots of men have more in their pensions than equity in the house . Often their wives know nothing about it.

The last time I said this to a fellow Mumsnetter she assured me that she was absolutely certain that their only assets were £250k in the house. And that her husband wasn’t smart enough to have hidden money or accounts. She said that they had been hard up for years - she

had stopped getting her hair coloured because they couldn’t afford it and she was struggling to pay off a credit card debt and put petrol in the car.

Turns out that their house had £350k equity and her husband had £650k in pensions that she knew nothing about.

From paperwork I've seen previously I think it might be around £50k pension and mine is probably similar or a little less.

@MahMahMahMahCorona

Can I just clarify: you have a joint account and you also both have personal accounts, one of which (of yours) he will suggest in Form E exchanges that he knows nothing about?

Of course he knew about it! It's where you put your PayPal / eBay money, and put aside cash you made from your various sales etc... disclose it. It's his word against yours that he didn't know about it - he must have forgotten about it because you most definitely talked about it when you set it up all those years ago, as a safety net so you didn't have to give out your "main" personal account when dealing with "customers".

It's not difficult to believe - you protected yourself and the money has now gone. I imagine he's got accounts you were unaware of too.

Yes I suspect that he did have accounts that I knew nothing about too. The problem will be with how I made some of the money. There will be lots of transactions on the statement that make it very obvious. I suspect I will just have to disclose everything and be proactive about sticking up for myself and being honest about how I made the money and why I chose not to tell him at the time.

I don't want him seeing how I managed to make the money and save it as I'm worried about his reaction. He will use it against me I'm sure.

He can’t “use it against you” unless you were doing something criminal that would make you a potential risk to your children’s safeguarding e.g. prostitution or drug dealing.

I assume it was something like matched betting?

Just decide not to worry about this or be drawn into an argument about it. It’s ultimately irrelevant.

If he says anything about the money just deflect

"What choice did I have? You didn't share your earnings fully, I had to pay for everything for DS despite earning less"

Say it was sex work- that doesn't make you a bad mum. It is irrelevant how it was made as it wasn't illegal.

@NoSquirrels

I don't want him seeing how I managed to make the money and save it as I'm worried about his reaction. He will use it against me I'm sure.

He can’t “use it against you” unless you were doing something criminal that would make you a potential risk to your children’s safeguarding e.g. prostitution or drug dealing.

I assume it was something like matched betting?

Just decide not to worry about this or be drawn into an argument about it. It’s ultimately irrelevant.

Thank you, no nothing illegal or dangerous. I'm just finding it so hard not to worry about it all right now. I thought the relationship was stressful but everything seems even harder right now.

@RandomMess

If he says anything about the money just deflect

"What choice did I have? You didn't share your earnings fully, I had to pay for everything for DS despite earning less"

Say it was sex work- that doesn't make you a bad mum. It is irrelevant how it was made as it wasn't illegal.

Thank you, yes I think that is the route I am going to need to take. Just justify my actions because I didn't have equal financial footing in the relationship and needed a back up fund.

The thing is op, you're getting divorced. You're under no obligation to answer any of his questions unless they come from his solicitor (and even then often you can be very vague).

It took me years to emotionally separate from my ex, but my incredibly empowering solicitor eventually told me 'it's absolutely none of his business how you live your life now'.

On the face of it, the money you HAD was quite a small amount, and it's now been spent on everyday essentials/divorce. His pension might be worth waaaay more - during financial disclosure he will need to apply for a CETV statement which could be many times more than his annual statement shows. He will also, when the time is right, have to disclose all his accounts too, and you have every right to scrutinise what he's been spending too.

In the meantime, only answer when his solicitor requests info. And sign up to the wikivorce website and forum for much better informed free advice.

You need some help to realise that he has NO say in your life anymore or even what you did then.

Presumably he used to bully/belittle/emotionally abuse you because you seem to be frightened of his reaction to things that are not his business anymore. You are already separated.

Tell him first step is to financially disclose to you including pension valuation.

@Couldhavebeenme3

The thing is op, you're getting divorced. You're under no obligation to answer any of his questions unless they come from his solicitor (and even then often you can be very vague).

It took me years to emotionally separate from my ex, but my incredibly empowering solicitor eventually told me 'it's absolutely none of his business how you live your life now'.

On the face of it, the money you HAD was quite a small amount, and it's now been spent on everyday essentials/divorce. His pension might be worth waaaay more - during financial disclosure he will need to apply for a CETV statement which could be many times more than his annual statement shows. He will also, when the time is right, have to disclose all his accounts too, and you have every right to scrutinise what he's been spending too.

In the meantime, only answer when his solicitor requests info. And sign up to the wikivorce website and forum for much better informed free advice.

Thank you I will sign up to the wickivorce website later.

@RandomMess

You need some help to realise that he has NO say in your life anymore or even what you did then.

Presumably he used to bully/belittle/emotionally abuse you because you seem to be frightened of his reaction to things that are not his business anymore. You are already separated.

Tell him first step is to financially disclose to you including pension valuation.

I think it's been really hard to try to get my head around this. I felt trapped financially for quite some time and I still feel like I need to justify things.

After financial disclosure, can he question every bit of my spending, for example wanting to know exactly what purchases I made from amazon, ebay, via PayPal etc were?

He can ask not sure you have to answer.

General living expenses would cover it.

Had you bought high value items like cars or art that would still be assets then yes it would be relevant but beyond that it isn't is it.

Do you have a solicitor?

wanting to know exactly what purchases I made from amazon, ebay, via PayPal etc were?

Unless they were big ticket purchases like jewellery, or a car, I recall a figure of £500 or less not worth querying. A few quid here or there - either deposits or withdrawals - are not going to make a difference.

My ex was spending £250 a month in the off licence, my statements showed a debit for an underwear shop. Unless it shows as BondageRus or gamblers United, he's really going to be wasting everyone's time and money chasing small spends.

He really doesn't have any right to know how you've either spent or acquired the odd tenner here and there.

No, no big ticket items. Just smaller items mainly by PayPal like some of the kids activities (£50ish), kids clothes/uniform/shoes (upto £100 at a time), clothes for me (maybe £30-50 at a time). So I wasn't sure if he could ask to see all of my PayPal records for the last 12 months too.

I didn't have to provide any financial documents, except pension CETV, I only had to put bank account, loan etc. information on the consent order paperwork and that was after we agreed finances. I don't think full disclosure is compulsory unless you're going through the courts to agree a settlement, which most divorces don't.

@DiamondBright

I didn't have to provide any financial documents, except pension CETV, I only had to put bank account, loan etc. information on the consent order paperwork and that was after we agreed finances. I don't think full disclosure is compulsory unless you're going through the courts to agree a settlement, which most divorces don't.

We aren't going through the courts yet, the original plan had been to agree everything ourselves, possibly via mediation to save on money. But now this is all being requested from me now by his solicitor.

After financial disclosure, can he question every bit of my spending, for example wanting to know exactly what purchases I made from amazon, ebay, via PayPal etc were?

He can ask what he likes. If he has a solicitor, many will be happy to send long letters with ridiculous questions. They get paid by the hour remember ( actually every 6 mins ).

So they will be delighted to sit in a 2 hour meeting with your husband ranting on about your spending £50 on school shoes that in his opinion were not required.

None of this means you have to answer one single bit of it.

I should add that I know how terrifying it is to even think about saying no to your husband. I bet you are feeling sick to your stomach just reading my posts.

Because you have been controlled by him for years - brain washed if you like. He can control you from afar because he lives in your head, saying mean and judgemental things about you.

That what happens when you live with abuse for years. Many of us here have lived through this so please understand that we are very sympathetic to you. No one here is judging you.

That’s why @RandomMess says that you need help to get free from him mentally. It a big job to deprogramme yourself. Things like doing the Freedom Programme really help.