What's a fair split?

[callingtimethistime]

What would be a fair split for this unmarried couple?

13 year relationship. Two school age DC. Low income family, with no savings or pensions but one significant asset (house). It's a relatively amicable split, neither partner has treated the other badly.

Partner A:
Owns house outright (no mortgage). Came into relationship with a mortgage. Bought family home outright with equity from 1st property, 10 years ago.

Works a job on relatively low wage but earns more money than B. Pays all regular bills except one & majority of household expenses
Significant debts (all on manageable payment plans).

Partner B:
Works on own business. Business not doing well partly as Partner B can't put in enough time in due to disability / health concerns. As a result, earns significantly less than partner A, not enough to live on.

Consistently pays one bill, £200 a month. Usually puts most of rest money into family pot, but it's a relatively small amount.
No debt, no assets.

Both put approx same amount of time into childcare. Partner B does most of the housework.

Legally Partner B doesn't own anything. It's expected that Partner B will leave the family home, as it's owned by A. However neither partner A nor B think it's fair that Partner B leaves the relationship with nothing, no money at all. Partner B will need money for a rental deposit for example.

What would be fair to both A & B? )And the DC).

If they were married, how would it be split?

(I know the answer to these two questions might not be the same!)

WWYD? Thanks.

@NotTheMrMenAgain

Sounds like good advice from MySecretHistory? Might that possibly work? Don't entertain any notion of re-mortgaging (likely not possible anyway) or taking a loan to 'give him a lump sum, or it's not fair'. Life isn't fair and he's a grown up! Sounds like you're going to be paddling like mad to keep your own canoe afloat - you can't be towing his as well!

From a purely financial point of view, it seems like the hard facts of the matter are that he's paid a bill of 200 per month and put a small amount into the pot - so are we talking a couple of hundred pounds, or more? Say his total financial contribution was 500 or so a month - this would all have gone on living expenses and bills that didn't include paying for accommodation as you own the property fully. I don't imagine he would have been able to have a similar standard of living for the same amount of money on his his own - surely rent or a mortgage on a smaller property would be more than 500 a month? So, in essence you've been subsiding him - he's been able to live so well on so little income because he was living in your property.

I know there's joint child care and house work contributed also, but from a purely financial point of view, that's how it's been. If he'd been covering mortgage payments for years and then had to walk away with no equity then there's an argument for that being 'not fair', although he would have done it in full knowledge of the ownership, with his eyes open - but that's simply not the case here.

Now that you need to split up - for everyone's mental health and welfare, not just yours - sadly he has to leave and he doesn't get the benefit of continuing to live, rent and mortgage free, in your property. It's sad but his circumstances have changed so his income or living situation will also need to change. It's nice and kind of you to be so worried about him. But you're considering some quite extreme options - moving across the country and buying him a flat - which may be to your and DC detriment, just so he is cushioned from the impact of the split. In the kindest possible way, please stop it! You absolutely don't have to tie yourself up in knots trying to 'fix' this. It's not a 'fixable' situation - it's a 'make the best of it' situation. Sounds like you've tried for years to 'fix' the relationship and ultimately that got nowhere. Stop putting yourself last - sleeping on the sofa for years is an extreme situation!

Yes, talk to him, make plans, explore best options, be supportive - but put yourself and DC first! His medical issues might be so severe he'd qualify for PIP, but if he's unable or unwilling to discuss it or engage with professionals then there's little you can do. It's sad, but you can't force him to do things for his own benefit.

Basically, I think what I'm saying is that this relationship sounds like it's dragged you down for far too long already. Get out of it, get him out of the house (where he goes isn't actually your problem) and save yourself and DC from the awful atmosphere. There really is a better, happier future out there for you, I promise! You sound like a lovely human!

You're very astute, NotTheMrMenAgain. Lots of this is bang on.

What I'm scared of, is if I ask him to go, he'll fall into a well of depression - he's prone to depression - and if he's got nowhere to go, that'll sink him and he'll go hide somewhere.

I don't want that for him, he doesn't deserve it, nor do our DC deserve to lose their dad as a regular feature of their lives.

And if the shoe was on the other foot and I was depressed, I know he wouldn't kick me out onto the streets! I can't do that to him.

I need to aim for this, it's about getting the balance right isn't it:
Yes, talk to him, make plans, explore best options, be supportive - but put yourself and DC first!

He really won't want to have this conversation, I'm expecting he'll shut it down as soon as he can, or move it to talking about his feelings instead of practical issues. Which is why I want to have thoroughly researched options first, so I understead the lay of the land and hope we can have a practical conversation.

@RandomMess

My friend had 50:50 and she receives housing benefit etc based on that. I don't think your DP has to be "resident" parent.

That's interesting. I'll look into this, thanks.

When you've finished your research perhaps email him?

You can convey everything you need to say and he can absorb it in his own time and way and "discussion" can happen via email?

You can also make it a trial and you can also say the DC are the priority etc.

How old are you both, OP ?

Is there a possibility of one (or both of you) re-training for better paid work?

Best of luck to you 💐

We're in our 40s.

My job has prospects, I should earn some more money at some point, eventually...

DP did retrain already, not so long ago, but a health condition emerged which makes this job increasingly tough, he can't get the lucrative roles. Really unlucky. He could retrain again - well he'll have to eventually - and he's up for it in principle I think, but doesn't have an idea what he could do next. He can't go back to his old job as he's not fit enough to do it any more.

I think this is a good idea for longer term. The DC are growing fast though and we need a more immediate solution for our current situation.

Best of luck to you Thanks x

If it doesn't totally screw me over wrt my role as parent to my DC, then DP getting housing benefit (is that part of UC now?) on the basis of having Child Benefit and CTC for the DC does seem to be a life-line that could make it possible.

I'll need to look into my rights as a NRP.

Like, for example, say in future he wanted to move the DC to the other end of the country? As NRP would that deminish my say in the decision? Or do we get equal say in law as we're both on the birth cert?

Or, say I wanted to move and bring the DC with me to another city, inviting DP to come along and he wasn't up for it, would it make any different to the decision making, who the official RP was?

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology? This is new to me!

I'm not suggesting the DC wouldn't live with me, I'd fight against that with everything I have.

I'm suggesting we share care of the DC but that the CB and CTC goes to DP so he can make a claim as a parent.

Unmarried partner A owns the property. Imagine that legally, in the UK, partner B is ‘entitled’ to virtually nothing as regards the property, unless they contributed to paying for property and/or improvements and this can be evidenced, in which case they might get a small sum.

Imagine that legally A could give B notice to leave and B would need to seek housing/benefits.

I was going to suggest what you have just said above. If the parent owning the house can manage without the additional money from Dc (child benefit, CTC etc) then would be better for partner B to claim for both the children, move out and rent somewhere they would then be entitled to the benefits for a single parent of 2 children.

Or you share 50/50 each claiming for one, but obviously that will be less.

As the initial house is owned, that’s safe so it doesn’t matter for that where they kids live etc.

But my advice is also, whilst you are trying to do the best for the DC and make it all fair. Be wary of committing to something that long term could cause issues. For example if partner B does this, it’s agreed they get settled etc, and in 2 years they meet someone else. Situation is still the same but now partner B has someone else’s income etc, and partner A doesn’t so partner B is much better off and partner A is still left struggling despite still having 50/50 care.

It’s very much a try to be fair, but start as you mean to go on and don’t be overly generous because things change, people and circumstances. Could be the most amicable split ever to begin with, doesn’t mean it’ll stay that way.

If partner B is the resident parent, it’s purely for money purposes, parental responsibility is still shared between both (given both are on Birth Cert) and so no, they do not make all decisions, you discuss this between yourselves who claims the money makes no difference for that.

@callingtimethistime

If it doesn't totally screw me over wrt my role as parent to my DC, then DP getting housing benefit (is that part of UC now?) on the basis of having Child Benefit and CTC for the DC does seem to be a life-line that could make it possible.

I'll need to look into my rights as a NRP.

Like, for example, say in future he wanted to move the DC to the other end of the country? As NRP would that deminish my say in the decision? Or do we get equal say in law as we're both on the birth cert?

Or, say I wanted to move and bring the DC with me to another city, inviting DP to come along and he wasn't up for it, would it make any different to the decision making, who the official RP was?

No you both have equal parental rights so one can only move with the others agreement or the other parent can fight it even if they are not RP or how little/much they see DC. And if care is actually shared 50/50 then both parents would have equal say/input.

@HeddaGarbled

If you won’t sell the house, B’s stuffed. If you were married, B would likely get half the assets so in the region of £200,000 minus £15,000 debts divided by 2 = £92,500.

This. Morally this is the correct outcome, but A has the power as you’re not married.

What’s ‘moral’ / ethical is subjective.

Had A wanted to marry, and share assets, A could have. B chose to remain in the relationship, unmarried, which had significant negative legal/financial implications for them personally in the event of a breakup. Unfortunately for B, that’s come to pass.

Or A remortgages to pay B
I think anything that means A keeps the asset and B gets nothing is unfair

And yes, splitting up almost always means both parties have to accept a deterioration in lifestyle. Not just one of them

V few people in A’s position would share the asset.

That’s not the case, Bill, when partners are unmarried and one has an asset. The one with the asset keeps it.

@Dozer

That’s not the case, Bill, when partners are unmarried and one has an asset. The one with the asset keeps it.

Legally yes Morally it’s always stated clearly in here that an unmarried mum with no assets is in a legally risky position, agree, but that it’s really unfair of the man to keep things to himself. It’s often said he should “put her on the deeds”, share the asset

BillMasen the OP says that when she bought the house she offered to put his name on the deeds and he didn't want her to, and so she didn't. Time moved on and their situation changed enormously. She absolutely should not and doesn't have to sell the property she owns outright - which provides a stable home for the DC - to fund a fresh start for her soon-to-be-ex who basically lived cheaply with her, being able to earn very little as they all lived rent/mortgage free in the house she owns.

Even if they'd had a long marriage and he was entitled to a percentage of the property - might not be 50 per cent, depends on many factors - no family Court Judge would force her to sell the DC's home when there isn't enough money to provide two suitable homes. That's just not how the system works - it's about 'fairness' yes, but primarily it's about ensuring the DC are provided for and have a secure home. Most likely - from what I've heard/know - is a mesher order would be in place which meant the OP kept the house until the DC left full time education, when it would be sold. So the DH in the situation would get nothing for the sale of the property for potentially many years. What might look 'fair' on paper doesn't always legally work when there are DC to look after. Which is why you end up with pissed off, bitter middle-aged men living in a smaller or rented place post-divorce, slagging off the ex-wife who got to 'keep the house'.....well, yeah, of course she did, because it's where the DC live and the Court is supposed to be in the business of protecting DC, not making them homeless! Totally different situation if there's enough money to sell up/cash in assets and buy two suitable places, though.

But the OP's not even married! And what kind of DF would want his DC to lose their home, so he could feather his own, new nest? Certainly not OP's partner, as she's clearly said a number of times.

I offered to out DP on the deeds and he declined.

*put

@BillMasen

Or A remortgages to pay B I think anything that means A keeps the asset and B gets nothing is unfair

And yes, splitting up almost always means both parties have to accept a deterioration in lifestyle. Not just one of them

Unfair to whom?

You seem to be forgetting about the DC, who are the most important people in this picture.

It looks like a remortgage isn't even possible.

Selling the house and splitting it would leave the DC with inadequate housing. There isn't a single house in the entire country for the price of half this house.

Be careful about becoming the NRP - if your DC end up staying with your partner more than you, you may have to pay maintenance.

And what kind of DF would want his DC to lose their home, so he could feather his own, new nest? Certainly not OP's partner, as she's clearly said a number of times.

Exactly, thank you! I know there are people out there like this, but thankfully not DP, both of us put the DC first.

@SciFiScream

Be careful about becoming the NRP - if your DC end up staying with your partner more than you, you may have to pay maintenance.

Wow, that'd sting, after bending over backwards to be nice!!

It would sting but he'd be entirely within his rights to claim and he would be doing the right thing for your DC. 🤷🏼‍♀️

OP I'd also advise you to be very careful before becoming the NRP - get some legal advice, it's not a step to be taken lightly.

Around four years ago an acquaintance had some trouble with a school application and ultimately the place which had been given was withdrawn, during the Summer holidays, leaving the DC with no school place in September - it was all rather stressful for her! I don't know all of the details, but it seemed to centre on the fact that. Child benefit was being paid to her ex-husband at his address, which was in another part of the city. The council wouldn't accept evidence that the DC also lived part of the time with her, treated his address as the primary residence and the school place was lost.

Someone else I know spilt up with the DF of her DC and had a set-up where she kept the DC with her but was officially the NRP, I assume for financial reasons. He was self-employed and it all seemed to be amicable for some time until things changed - at which point he tried to claim maintenance from her, for DC which were still living with her! Madness.

Just pointing out that it can be a minefield and you'll need to look at future-proofing as much as possible - because circumstances change and people can change more than you ever thought possible!