What's a fair split?

[callingtimethistime]

What would be a fair split for this unmarried couple?

13 year relationship. Two school age DC. Low income family, with no savings or pensions but one significant asset (house). It's a relatively amicable split, neither partner has treated the other badly.

Partner A:
Owns house outright (no mortgage). Came into relationship with a mortgage. Bought family home outright with equity from 1st property, 10 years ago.

Works a job on relatively low wage but earns more money than B. Pays all regular bills except one & majority of household expenses
Significant debts (all on manageable payment plans).

Partner B:
Works on own business. Business not doing well partly as Partner B can't put in enough time in due to disability / health concerns. As a result, earns significantly less than partner A, not enough to live on.

Consistently pays one bill, £200 a month. Usually puts most of rest money into family pot, but it's a relatively small amount.
No debt, no assets.

Both put approx same amount of time into childcare. Partner B does most of the housework.

Legally Partner B doesn't own anything. It's expected that Partner B will leave the family home, as it's owned by A. However neither partner A nor B think it's fair that Partner B leaves the relationship with nothing, no money at all. Partner B will need money for a rental deposit for example.

What would be fair to both A & B? )And the DC).

If they were married, how would it be split?

(I know the answer to these two questions might not be the same!)

WWYD? Thanks.

Well it's a shitty situation all round. Time to stop thinking about what works for A and B and decide what is the best solution for the DC.
Then make it happen.

There is no magic solution.
You need more money. Check your entitlements, especially as you mention your DC have SEN.

Is B doing anything to move this situation on? If B is the one sleeping on the sofa every night I'd hope so. But if B is the one in the bedroom who knows if they are remotely motivated to do anything.

Well it's a shitty situation all round. Time to stop thinking about what works for A and B and decide what is the best solution for the DC.
Then make it happen.

Thank you, that's good advice.

I can't think what the solution is even then, but hopefully I'll get to it at some point.

At the moment, it looks like we just can't afford to spilt up in any way that doesn't disadvantage the DC. But staying together, the situation is toxic and Partner B's health is declining, partly because of the stress of this situation.

Maybe working on how to bring more money in, is the answer. I'll do some sums but suspect that the DC will probably be grown leaving home by the time we could raise enough for another property!

I'm sure there must be some solution out there!

It'd help if DP would talk to me about any of this, but that is part of the whole problem.

Check your entitlements I started this last night, and I'm not sure if I did something wrong but it ended up with partner B having enough money to rent a flat locally, but with no money for food or bills.

You had to enter how much rent you would be entitled to according to a government table and it was confusing.

I'll have another go when it's not 2am and see if I can make sense of it.

You need to reconcile with the fact that either you stay living together, or you separate, sell the house and rent rather than buy. It comes down to money and you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

@Shmithecat2 they won't be selling the house they aren't married.

@SciFiScream

Well it's a shitty situation all round. Time to stop thinking about what works for A and B and decide what is the best solution for the DC. Then make it happen.

There is no magic solution.
You need more money. Check your entitlements, especially as you mention your DC have SEN.

Is B doing anything to move this situation on? If B is the one sleeping on the sofa every night I'd hope so. But if B is the one in the bedroom who knows if they are remotely motivated to do anything.

OK, enough of the partner A and B stuff!

Interesting observation about our sleeping arrangements!

I'm partner A, and I'm the one on the sofa.

I love DP dearly, he's a good man and I can't kick him out on the street. But our relationship is increasingly toxic and I can see it's affecting the DC.

DP is terrified of emotions or feeling vulnerable and of failure and simply cannot have a functional conversation about this or anything of significance. He would say he finds the way I talk to him infuriating. I find this frustrating as despite years of trying I have found no way to talk to him about serious stuff that doesn't involve him shutting down the conversation as quickly as possible, or getting angry if I refuse to accept the conversation being closed. I suspect he has autistic traits, although you'd have to get to know him really well to notice them, on the surface he doesn't seem typically ASD at all. (One of our DC is autistic).

I have realised recently that I will need to do the legwork to work out how this could happen.

Counselling didn't help btw. The counsellor seemed baffled by us, I thought. Maybe we need to try again with a different counsellor - not to try to stay together, but just to communicate with each other.

I'm fed up with being on the sofa! I could move back in the bedroom. But I thought now I've moved out if it, it seemed to be going backwards to move back in.

DP would sleep on the sofa if I asked him but it wouldn't work for any of us as it'd make his health worse. Plus I would rather have the living room when I need it, not have to negotiate a sleeping DP in it.

I want to find a way we can co-parent but live apart. It looks like money is the problem. Maybe I need to think more about that.

@Shmithecat2

You need to reconcile with the fact that either you stay living together, or you separate, sell the house and rent rather than buy. It comes down to money and you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

As I said above, if we sold and split the money evenly, neither of us would be able to afford a property anywhere in the entire county we live in, much less the town.

Neither of us would make our DC homeless!

If we rent rather than buy, we'd get through the money from the sale of the house on rent in about 5 years.

At the end of that, all the money would be gone and we'd both be reliant on benefits to pay rent, and the DC's inheritance would be gone.

How does that situation help anyone?

I can understand people being forced into that situation if they're married and one partner forces the sale. But we're not, and no one is forcing a sale, so why would we choose to disadvantage all of us like that?

There must be a better way.

When we bought the house, I did ask DP if he wanted his name put on the deeds. I know I would have, had the situation been reversed, or to have got married, because I wouldn't have wanted to be so vulnerable financially. But DP said he didn't need to have his name on the deeds so I didn't add his name. At that point he was fit and healthy and with a career plan, we didn't expect to be struggling with money so.

That’s the reality of splitting up unfortunately.

[quote RandomMess]@Shmithecat2 they won't be selling the house they aren't married.[/quote]
I know they're not married 🤔 but if selling the house, sharing the equity and renting isn't an option, in lieu of a money tree or lottery win, they'll either have to carry on living together, or the owner of the house boots the other person out 🤷‍♀️

The options for DP are

A room in the shared house and he visits the DC at yours and takes them out and does no overnights.

Legally you share 50:50 and that entitled him to benefits for a 2 bed.

Speak to CAB to double check the entitled to calculations sound correct.

Is he unwell enough to claim PIP or lower mobility rate?

Are the DC entitled for you to receive carers allowance?

My 2am idea was that we could move to a cheaper part of the country, where we have friends, I could buy a flat for DP to rent from me, I'd give him some equity in it given if we were married he wouldn't be in such a shitty situation, and then he could buy it off me over the years if he was in a position to do so, or not and it would remain mostly mine. Or he could leave if he got fed up with the situation and sorted out something himself. And then we could co-parent relatively easily.

DP might be too proud to accept such a set up, but I know if the ball was on the other foot, I'd be grateful for a safety net like this.

However I'm about £100k short to make this happen. Perhaps I need to look at mortgages, although it's a long shot.

I don't know if DP would accept it anyway.

Hi OP, do not sell the house! Even if you were married and it had become a joint asset the main priority of the Court is to ensure the welfare of any children of the marriage - and housing them is one of the main factors! So there's no way in the world a Judge would make you sell the house in your position. If you were married your ex-husband would be entitled to a percentage of the property, but how much would depend on a myriad factors and it might be a case of getting nothing from the house until the DC left full-time education and it could be sold.

Divorces are 'easier' for the Court to deal with when there's enough money/assets to go around for everyone to have a house, and the argument is around who gets what or how much. Much more tricky are the divorces where there simply isn't enough to go around, which means the DC must be housed and inevitably one parent will not have a property and end up renting a flat/room etc. It's hard, but it's the way the system works - what might initially sound 'fair' on paper doesn't work in law if the DC needs aren't met. So, that's just to draw a line under the "sell the house" talk.

BUT, you aren't married so it just comes down to property law, which doesn't take the needs of DC into account - so it's extremely fortunate the property is in your name or the situation might be much, much worse. At the end of the day, you can't give what you don't have. You need to secure the DC's future in a stable, happy home - which means getting their father to leave, however harsh that sounds. You can't afford to run two properties between you and his housing isn't actually your responsibility. It sounds like you've flogged the dead horse of your relationship for so long you're worn down and can't see the wood for the trees.

It's great that you're amicable and want to support him but at the end of the day the relationship is dead and he needs to walk away from the property you own, which houses DC, and look at making arrangements for himself. He's not a victim here, it's not a situation he's blameless in - the relationship has ended for lots of reasons, some of them his fault. People suggesting you stay together or keep living together aren't witnessing the atmosphere in the house, the effect on your mental health and the repercussions for DC.

It's going to be difficult, but he'll have to find a room to rent somewhere as cheaply as possible for the interim and take it from there.

I think your partner needs to look at renting - even a one bed atm and getting his benefits sorted. He might not be able to have the children overnight to begin with, but surely this is better than your current situation.

Is he unwell enough to claim PIP or lower mobility rate? I don't think so, but tbh I don't know a lot about PIP. He's terrible at engaging with doctors (and his health has suffered as a result) and so there isn't a proper record of how much he's suffering with it. He just takes monster amounts of painkillers and tries to get on with it.

CAB is a good call, I found the housing part really confusing.

But actually moving costs a fortune now, so would take a lump out of the equity.

@NotTheMrMenAgain

Hi OP, do not sell the house! Even if you were married and it had become a joint asset the main priority of the Court is to ensure the welfare of any children of the marriage - and housing them is one of the main factors! So there's no way in the world a Judge would make you sell the house in your position. If you were married your ex-husband would be entitled to a percentage of the property, but how much would depend on a myriad factors and it might be a case of getting nothing from the house until the DC left full-time education and it could be sold.

Divorces are 'easier' for the Court to deal with when there's enough money/assets to go around for everyone to have a house, and the argument is around who gets what or how much. Much more tricky are the divorces where there simply isn't enough to go around, which means the DC must be housed and inevitably one parent will not have a property and end up renting a flat/room etc. It's hard, but it's the way the system works - what might initially sound 'fair' on paper doesn't work in law if the DC needs aren't met. So, that's just to draw a line under the "sell the house" talk.

BUT, you aren't married so it just comes down to property law, which doesn't take the needs of DC into account - so it's extremely fortunate the property is in your name or the situation might be much, much worse. At the end of the day, you can't give what you don't have. You need to secure the DC's future in a stable, happy home - which means getting their father to leave, however harsh that sounds. You can't afford to run two properties between you and his housing isn't actually your responsibility. It sounds like you've flogged the dead horse of your relationship for so long you're worn down and can't see the wood for the trees.

It's great that you're amicable and want to support him but at the end of the day the relationship is dead and he needs to walk away from the property you own, which houses DC, and look at making arrangements for himself. He's not a victim here, it's not a situation he's blameless in - the relationship has ended for lots of reasons, some of them his fault. People suggesting you stay together or keep living together aren't witnessing the atmosphere in the house, the effect on your mental health and the repercussions for DC.

It's going to be difficult, but he'll have to find a room to rent somewhere as cheaply as possible for the interim and take it from there.

Thank you for understanding, selling the house isn't an option! Not without reinvesting in a new one, anyway.

Very thoughtful post. Lots to think about here.

Yes, I feel worn down. We both do I think. And yes, the atmosphere is affecting everyone.

Person A won’t be able to get a mortgage if on payment plans (ie negotiated with lender). This will impact for many years

The best option for the children is that Person B receives child benefit and is named as 50/50 care split which will enable them to get UC and rent a large enough space. Where they actually live is another matter.

I think if the person owning the house is determined to stay they should remortgage so that a lump sum is released to the other party. Otherwise it's not fair. Legally though you're on dodgy grounds with that.

See what benefits you're entitled to and take it from there. Many rental properties are more expensive than mortgage repayments- which then mean people can't save for a deposit. It's an impossible situation for so many.

This does not sound like a situation where you can or should stay op.

I'd also discuss what the childcare arrangements will be as whoever has them the most should have that recognised in the financial arrangements.

Sounds like good advice from MySecretHistory? Might that possibly work? Don't entertain any notion of re-mortgaging (likely not possible anyway) or taking a loan to 'give him a lump sum, or it's not fair'. Life isn't fair and he's a grown up! Sounds like you're going to be paddling like mad to keep your own canoe afloat - you can't be towing his as well!

From a purely financial point of view, it seems like the hard facts of the matter are that he's paid a bill of 200 per month and put a small amount into the pot - so are we talking a couple of hundred pounds, or more? Say his total financial contribution was 500 or so a month - this would all have gone on living expenses and bills that didn't include paying for accommodation as you own the property fully. I don't imagine he would have been able to have a similar standard of living for the same amount of money on his his own - surely rent or a mortgage on a smaller property would be more than 500 a month? So, in essence you've been subsiding him - he's been able to live so well on so little income because he was living in your property.

I know there's joint child care and house work contributed also, but from a purely financial point of view, that's how it's been. If he'd been covering mortgage payments for years and then had to walk away with no equity then there's an argument for that being 'not fair', although he would have done it in full knowledge of the ownership, with his eyes open - but that's simply not the case here.

Now that you need to split up - for everyone's mental health and welfare, not just yours - sadly he has to leave and he doesn't get the benefit of continuing to live, rent and mortgage free, in your property. It's sad but his circumstances have changed so his income or living situation will also need to change. It's nice and kind of you to be so worried about him. But you're considering some quite extreme options - moving across the country and buying him a flat - which may be to your and DC detriment, just so he is cushioned from the impact of the split. In the kindest possible way, please stop it! You absolutely don't have to tie yourself up in knots trying to 'fix' this. It's not a 'fixable' situation - it's a 'make the best of it' situation. Sounds like you've tried for years to 'fix' the relationship and ultimately that got nowhere. Stop putting yourself last - sleeping on the sofa for years is an extreme situation!

Yes, talk to him, make plans, explore best options, be supportive - but put yourself and DC first! His medical issues might be so severe he'd qualify for PIP, but if he's unable or unwilling to discuss it or engage with professionals then there's little you can do. It's sad, but you can't force him to do things for his own benefit.

Basically, I think what I'm saying is that this relationship sounds like it's dragged you down for far too long already. Get out of it, get him out of the house (where he goes isn't actually your problem) and save yourself and DC from the awful atmosphere. There really is a better, happier future out there for you, I promise! You sound like a lovely human!

OK, so I've put the details into EntitledTo again, this time as if he's the resident parent for the DC.

The housing is still confusing, but I think it means he'd actually be better off than he is now and would be able to afford a small place to rent. That's really interesting. I'd lose child tax credits, I need to do some more sums to see if that's manageable for me. I expect I can make it work though.

But- what does that mean in practical terms if he's officially the RP? Does that mean he gets to make the decisions on their care?

In the past, our actual share of childcare has been pretty even over time, and has changed with our circumstances. We've both been a SAHP while the other has worked full time, at different times in the relationship. We've also both worked part time and cared for the DC equally, which is our current set-up.

But, in terms of emotional labour and organisation - that's pretty much all down to me. e.g. finding and applying for new schools, following up SEN issues, liasing with schools, thinking about future plans, and daily stuff like ensuring DC have enough clothes & that they fit etc etc etc. That's all my department.

If DP did official have resident parent status, what would that change? If we did sertiously fall out (not anticipating it, but just in case), might the fact he was RP give him power to make decisions about our DC without me?

My friend had 50:50 and she receives housing benefit etc based on that. I don't think your DP has to be "resident" parent.