What might I get if I divorce, as I'm not entitled to benefits

[adri349]

Hi, I'd really appreciate if any of you could offer your opinions or experience on what you think I might get or and could ask for, if I go for divorce at some point. I've put my brief background and questions below. Thanks.

Background
-I'm in my early thirties
-I came to marry in UK 7 years ago (from Brazil), husband already had a 2 bed flat before marriage, no kids.
-I worked part time for about 2 years, just call centre, minimum wage
-I had a daughter with him, she's now aged 14 months
-He is self employed, works around the country, probably earns maybe 30 to 50 a year, depending on work availability, it can vary.
-The flat is worth maybe £130k, with about £70k still on the mortgage
-We both have about £10k each in savings
-I don't want to be married anymore, for my own reasons.
-If I divorce, I can stay in the UK on a Parent Visa because my daughter was born in the UK. I would want complete custody.
-However, the Parent Visa does not allow me benefits. The visa says 'no recourse to public funds'. And I would need to remain on that visa, after divorce, for 5 years before I can settle and get benefits.

Questions

1. From what I understand, the government will give me and daughter the flat to live in, and he can find somewhere else. I've added up all the bills, mortgage, car, home maintenance, food, basic leisure etc and I'll need about £1800 a month to cover everything, and thats not including nice holidays. So given that I cannot get benefits for 5 years and I'm a stay at home mum, he must surely be asked to pay the £1800 in combined spousal support and child maintenance right? As that's how much we need.

1. Might the government say he has to sell the flat? In which case how much of the money might I be entitled to, and would he still pay child and spousal maintenance if I used some of that flat sale to pay the bills myself?

1. After 5 years, when I could get benefits, would those be reduced if he pays me spousal maintenance? Or I'm entitled to get both?

1. I'd want full custody of my little one. He can start his own family if he wants, not my problem. So what's the minimum they could award custody or visiting for him? Like a few hours on the weekend, or a whole day?

1. His pension at retirement and any inheritance he might get in future, I read I may be awarded some of that - but would that work the otherway around as well?

1. Can I make him leave the flat? Like just lock the doors on him and say sorry, you're welcome back to visit only if you must. I understand then he has no option but to apply for rights to visit.

1. I hope I would be able to continue to live in the flat after divorce. Surely he would be made to keep making payments on the mortgage if he doesn't live here?

Sorry about all the questions, just comment on any that you feel you wish. I hope the answers will be useful for others.

He will not be expected to pay 100% of your costs, and you will not be given the flat. Unlikely you will qualify for spousal maintenance, and you will be expected to work. You will not automatically be awarded sole custody- so pretty much all your assumptions are false. Speak to a lawyer, and take it from there. But I'd lower your expectations greatly.

@adri349

I am going to continue to think you are real, but the very basic is, your husband holds all the cards.

Going on from what I previous said, if you were to divorce you might not have any benefits, any rights to a council house and any rights to his flat, so you will be homeless.

No court in the land is going to allow a child to live with you, while you are homeless, so he will have full custody and you will have to pay maintence

As far as I am aware spousal is not really a thing here, you will not get it. Especially because you will be paying him maintance because he will retain full custody of the child as he owns the house

Good grief! Really?! Ok assuming this is genuine...

Questions

1. From what I understand, the government will give me and daughter the flat to live in NO the flat is as much his as yours legally, either you buy him out or he buys you out or you sell and each will get some of whatever's left once all legal costs covered relating to the sale

and he can find somewhere else.

I've added up all the bills, mortgage, car, home maintenance, food, basic leisure etc and I'll need about £1800 a month to cover everything, and thats not including nice holidays. So given that I cannot get benefits for 5 years and I'm a stay at home mum, he must surely be asked to pay the £1800 in combined spousal support and child maintenance right? As that's how much we need. again NO not a chance in hell!

1. Might the government say he has to sell the flat? In which case how much of the money might I be entitled to do you have any proof of contributions to flat? Being married helps but a marriage of less than 10 years doesn't count for much and would he still pay child and spousal maintenance if I used some of that flat sale to pay the bills myself? EXTREMELY unlikely you'll get spousal maintenance, quite honestly as he's self employed you'll have a job getting child maintenance out of him!

1. After 5 years, when I could get benefits, would those be reduced if he pays me spousal maintenance? Or I'm entitled to get both? again VERY unlikely you'd get spousal maintenance anyway. If you did get any it's deducted from benefits £ for £

1. I'd want full custody of my little one. nope! Not just your child! Your child has a right to a relationship with their father He can start his own family if he wants, not my problem he HAS a family it's not up to you to deny him that! So what's the minimum they could award custody or visiting for him? Like a few hours on the weekend, or a whole day? standard is every other weekend (full days but not overnights till they're about preschool age) and an evening in the week BUT there's starting to be much more 50/50 awarded - you have your child half the time and him the other half. Depends on a lot of different factors

1. His pension at retirement and any inheritance he might get in future nope! You've not been married long enough! I read I may be awarded some of that - but would that work the otherway around as well?

1. Can I make him leave the flat? of course not its his flat! Like just lock the doors on him and say sorry, you're welcome back to visit only if you must. I understand then he has no option but to apply for rights to visit.

1. I hope I would be able to continue to live in the flat after divorce. Surely he would be made to keep making payments on the mortgage if he doesn't live here? absolutely not!! It's HIS FLAT! How are you not understanding that?!

"You would get 50% of joint assets." Not automatically in such a short marriage - was a big factor in why I waited 4 months to file, took me over the 10 year limit (which officially doesn't exist but in reality that's how most courts/judges operate)

I've just checked cms calculator and on £30k a year IF he declares even that much income (very easy for self employed non resident parents to avoid paying child maintenance) you'd only get £298 a month in child maintenance - and that's current circumstances if he has overnights or has more DC that will get reduced.

"I don't see how I could go out and get a job as I have to look after my little one" you do what many other single parents do and get childcare! I got a full time job and dd a full time nursery place within a month of leaving ex. Perfectly normal.

"A bedsit is £350/month, including bills. Add a few hundred for food and extras, perhaps he could get by on £600 a month? I couldn't find anything online about what makes a basic 'reasonable need', but as I said, I added up mine which came to around 1800. He must make at least 2400 a month, so surely it could work..." you're being ridiculous! Why would you be entitled to far more of his wage that he earned than he is?!

And a quick Google shows it isn't much different in Brazil

"There’s been a few odd posts recently with posters wanting ludicrous money from men after brief marriages or one night stands resulting in children." Yea I've noticed that too!

I can't exist otherwise then can I?

You can get a job; you could return to Brazil.

You'll have to get a job, and you need to start looking now.

Spousal maintenance is rarely awarded, especially to younger women. They are expected to support themselves.

No, you cannot keep,going back to change the amount - if you are very lucky, you will get a fixed amount for a couple of years to tide you over whilst you establish your employment (that's all the cover anyone gets for the recognised reality that you can't always walk in to a job, might need to refresh skills after a period out of the workforce)

So it's not a 'theoretical maximum' or any ohper centrally set figure or proportion; if you get anything at all, it is a set amount for a specified time., And it's individual to your circumstances. That is why you need to see a solicitor about your individual situation.

"A bedsit is £350/month, including bills"

Irrelevant, surely? He's going to need a minimum of a two bedroom flat, so there is a proper bedroom for his DD when she is there.

The current flat might have to be sold, and equity divided (proportion depending on overall settlement) so each former spouse can get their own place. You need to be looking at how much you need to be earning to rent or buy a place for yourself.

So start planning - you need to be job hunting, working out your future budget and seeing a solicitor about your current immigration status now (I don't quite understand why you do not already have ILTR)

UK was supposed to be very supportive to the mother

Not at the expense of a loving father.....you've not said anything to suggest he's otherwise

Also the courts are pretty good at spotting a gold digging leech a mile off - you'll be expected to work not free load

There is another thread on here where the father earns £150k plus a year - his maintenance is likely to be £1100 a month tops - so your delusional if you think you're going to get more than this when your husband earns a lot less

Honestly don’t know if this is a joke or not. If it’s not, you’re very entitled. You expect your husband to live on £600 per month in a bedsit, and give you £1800? Really?

If this is genuine then I think you are either astoundingly naive or incredibly entitled and greedy. The courts wont be awarding you huge amounts of spousal maintenance or handing the flat over to you. Get a job. You will have to fund childcare in the same way that every other working parent in this country does. You cant expect to sit on your bum in a flat you don't own whilst your poor husband or British taxpayers fund your lifestyle.

How do you plan for things and build the next stage in life?

You get a bloody job!

UK was supposed to be very supportive to the mother

Where did you read this?! Nobody is going to be supportive to a mother who doesn’t want the UK born father to have any sort of custody, wants to throw him out of the house he already owned when he met her, into a bedsit and pay her most of his salary!

Get a job and stop trying to freeload off other people.

What visa have you got? Did you answer this?

I just hope I'll be considered differently due to the circumstances. confused

No, you will not. Why the hell do you think you will be? You have been married for only 7 years, you haven't worked for 5 of those and yet your child is only 14 months old.

Here is a newsflash: you will NOT get 'spousal maintenance'. You are having a right laugh. A friend of mine who'd been married for 26 years to a very wealthy man by whom she has two adult children at last finalised her divorce - after over 3 years of wrangling - spousal maintenance, my arse. The court favours a 'clean break' because of course, the divorcing parties' circumstances can change over time - redundancies, death, demotions/promotions, etc. He tried to sabotage selling the family home they had bought together (their third, she had sold her business to make a bigger deposit), blah blah blah. And she got 50% of the assets they have now, that's it. No court is going to award future inheritances and pension.

Where did you get your information, LaLaLand?

He's self-employed, you'll be lucky to get much in the way of child maintenance at all, but spousal maintenance? Haaahaa.

Or the flat, that was his before you married, you've only been married 7 years, you haven't worked in 5 years so may never have contributed to anything.

Get a bloody JOB!
In divorce, barring disability, both parties are expected to work to support themselves and their children.

If you’ve been here for 7 years and have a 1 year old child, why have you only worked part time for 2 years?

What have you bee doing?

Could you not go back to Brazil?
They are always looking for care workers and call centre staff here it seems!

You can't get benefits if you have no recourse to public funds and you certainly can't stop him getting to the property unless he was abusive towards you or the child and can prove it and get a court order.

Speak to citizens advice in your area.

You should be eligible for ILR and then immediate application for British citizenship if you had a partner visa and were on 5yr route.
Otherwise, there is a good chance they will send you back to Brazil no your daughter (who has dual Brazil-UK) can live either with you or her dad. She is only 14months so the parent visa probably would not be granted as it hinges on the british child having made a life in U.K. such as started in the school system, too old to change language and culture.

OP your biggest issue is your immigration rather than money after divorce. Speak to an immigration lawyer.

@adri349 Can you tell us why you can't get a job? That's what most people have to do to earn money.

1. Only the money earned during marriage is split equally. Anything pre marriage is returned to each person on a fair basis

1. Courts will not grant either parent custody unless there is clear reason to eg abuse

1. I can't comment on visa status

1. Assuming for some reason you are granted sole custody (very unlikely), his only payments to you will be in line with CSA. Approx £300-500 a month.

If you stayed at home whilst he worked you would have a claim to pre marriage money but it wouldn't be near as much as you hope for

Based on what you have written, all you are likely to get is child maintenance and perhaps a small bit of his existing pension pot. With the flat being a pre-existing asset and a relatively short marriage, it will likely continue to be considered his asset.

Your options are:

1. get a FT job and keep you and your child off what you earn plus the maintenance of an absolute maximum of £300ish a month
2. return to Brazil, probably without your child unless your XH is willing to grant you permission to take them.

Your circumstances are not particularly special or unusual and they absolutely will not be used as a basis to award you more. Most countries are politically not terribly interested in funding non-citizens to live there; to live in a foreign country that does not have free movement with your home country, you either need to have the right to work and a job that fully supports you financially, or a spouse or family in the country with sufficient resources to fully support you. You no longer have the latter, apparently, so you'll either have to find the former or leave.

It's not a particularly enviable situation you're in, no, but it's reality. Get a solicitor with experience in both family law and immigration, and a full-time job. "I might not get one" isn't good enough. You have to.

You won't get anything near what you're asking for. You won't just be given his flat, he won't be ordered to pay you the majority of his salary and he won't be expected to just move on and create a new family while you keep the child.

If he's not abusive, I would suggest that you stay in the marriage and get yourself in a position where you can support yourself before you seek a divorce because while his income is decent, it's not huge and he won't be expected to support you.

How does he feel about you wanting full custody of his child?

He probably doesn't know, fed, the OP was planning to spring it on him after believing she could make him completely superfluous, excepting his money, of course. Unbelievable.

You won’t get 1800 a month from someone who earns 30-50 grand a year!

Most likely you would have to sell the flat and take half each of everything, and he can get 50/50 custody if that’s what he wants to do, I don’t know why you wouldn’t want that, then you could work?

Poor bloke.

You won’t get anywhere near that amount op and you don’t get to specify how much of his wages you want. You will get child maintenance based on his wages and taken into account how custody is shared. You won’t get full custody it’s usually 50 50

So I think your options are to leave get a job go back to Brazil or stay in the marriage and be supported by your dh until you are entitled to benefits and are able to financially support yourself and your child. - this is presuming your marriage isn’t abusive

You need to speak to a solicitor because of the immigration issue but it very unlikely you will get spousal as that doesn’t seem to be awarded very often these days even in long marriages

You honestly can’t expect any court to leave him with £600 of his own wages to feed house and cloth himself while you live in the flat he bought before you were married. Don’t know the circumstances for you wanting a divorce but I feel sorry for the bloke if you expect him to live like that

You could live in the bedsit?