STAHM Staying in family home post divorce

[ustbxh]

To be clear - I'm the STBXH - I've also posted in Legal but hoping for a more real-life set of replies based on experience here.

My wife has decided that I should now become the ex husband. Totally against my desires, but we've had our issues and I can't pretend it's a surprise or totally unwarranted.

We live in a large 4 bed house - with currently a circa. 65% LTV mortgage. Payments are a bit more than 1100/month.

Being a SAHM she has no / very minimal income. I am what I believe is described here as a "high earner", base around 100, with car allowance + bonus + shares nearly 130.

We have two children around 4 & 7 (by the time this happens)

Her thoughts are she'll stay in the house with the kids. I will be paying around 1100-1200/month in CM and she has suggested to me I should cover the remainder of household finances via spousal maintenance. This would be a total (CM+SM) of around 2400/month. This would not include any of the extras like house savings required to run a house or child's activities.

This would leave me a little over 2500/month from my salary.

We appear to be in the exceptionally fortunate (and rare - thus I am struggling to find other posts) position that there is more than enough money in the monthly pot to fun a reasonable lifestyle for both of us and our children.

My concerns are this:

1. Without selling the house, we can't release equity (monthly payments would become an issue etc) thus I can't move on and buy my own house / home.

1. By her staying in property, as it's joint ownership, any future property I bought (I could save a deposit by living with parents for a while) would attract a silly amount of stamp duty almost equal to a deposit.

1. There'd be nothing stopping her finding a new partner and him living with her in the home that I pay for in it's almost entirety.

Thus, my desire is to sell the property, I can then buy a new family home where I can live and the children have their own home at my place - none of this "dad sleeps on sofa" stuff.

This would leave her with a sizeable amount of cash (maybe 90-100k?) however no benefits (due to cash) and limited options for a mortgage. A 3bed house here is crica. 200k on the bottom end of the scale.

What I'm really looking for information on is

1. Has anyone been in a similar situation - if so how did it work out for you?
2. Am I being unreasonable expecting to sell our family home, given the consequences of that are that she'll likely need to rent?
3. Should I accept that kids always come first and that I should accept that there's enough money to achieve this and that this is probably the least worst option? Even if I fund this for the next 16 or so years until the kids are no longer living at home?

As I said, I've posted over in Legal so I'm less interested in the legal / technical side and more interested in the moral sides.

Thanks

Entirely agree that if you are struggling to find the money it must be a worry and affect your happiness however luckily on your salary it is highly unlikely your children will ever be living in poverty. I think all of us need to readjust our expectations of what our children need. Above everything they need food, a roof over their head and love. Unfortunately peer pressure and an expectation to fit in with the norm puts tremendous pressure on parents to provide material items.

Please think about quality time spent with your kids rather than the money. Yes we all need money to live on , but you stated that if you got a job locally you could still earn a good wage of £40-50k .
Think about the emotional cost not just the financial.
As a dad you need to be a part of your kids lives, going to parents evenings, school shows, fetes, swimming lessons etc.
I agree,you need a home for them as well, they need a permanent home with mum if she is the main parent but they also need their own space at your potential house.

Both parents need to put the kids first but the priority should be emotional not financial as long as they are not living in poverty.
Nobody needs to live in a big house, drive fancy cars and have all the material goods. Kids need clothes ,food, a roof over their heads and love/ time from both parents if possible.
it does sound like you are trying to do the right thing for your family but also think long term. what happens if you or her meet somebody else? Have more children? has your marriage failed at the expense of the high income - don’t answer that i just put it out there but do not expect an answer.
Good luck with the process, divorce is horrible, but I have seen the damage done to kids through lack of parental time rather than money.
Our kids are devoted to their Dad, we made the decision as a family for him not to work away as he could earn a good enough wage without him earning massive amounts.
You do sound like you care, but please think about the future and your kids emotional needs, at 4 and 7 they are ( relatively ) easy, when hormones kick in they need,in all their grumpiness,love and support.

You really need to post more details, ages, length of marriage, pensions, savings etc, etc. I suggest you post this on the government funded Wikivorce divorce website where you will get excellent advice.

Not sure where you are but guessing London from that wage commuting.

My advice is to look at the cost of properties that would meet your wife's minimum needs eg a bedroom. Based on that vrs the cost of your family home you can see the feasibility of purchasing a replacement home with smaller mortgage which you would pay for x number of years. (5 is probably reasonable) then your only other liability will be child support. After 5 years she will take over the mortgage payments. Alternatively can you split your home? Or purchase two smaller homes. You have a very substantial salary so a mortgage broker would be able to find suitable products I'm sure for each of you.

You’ve made it clear your priority is getting off the mortgage so you need to get proper advice from a mortgage broker or by speaking to your mortgage provider what your wife’s lending potential may be if she buys somewhere for £200k and poss had £120-140k deposit and maybe a longer term. Like I said work out her benefits and CM. Yes you would no deposit but you earn enough to start again and would have the clean break / off the mortgage that you want. Maybe you will have to pay a small amount SM until she starts work to make a mortgage work but I doubt it would be the extra £1k+ she is suggesting. Housing the kids is court’s top priority so that means her having the equity (but you may get keep your pension)

@stucknoue

No, we live in the North East I work either at home (average maybe 1 or 2 weeks a month) and the rest of the time in some random place in Europe.

Despite the belief that its cheap up north, where we live, you're looking at 200k absolutely minimum for a 3bed.

@Dropthedeaddonkey

Youre right, its mainly because I want to be able to establish myself a family home for myself and my kids. As has been said, my salary is sufficient to enable me to buy somewhere very nice, and I can create a family home for the time I get to spend with the kids. Something I am set on is that the kids see the house I live in as their home too. Own bedroom, own clothes, own toys etc etc. Even if it's only a couple nights a week I don't want them to have to be packing a bag to come "stay at dad's". I want them to feel like it's home. I feel this will be very difficult without buying a property.

As mentioned, i can likely save a deposit, however stamp duty on a 2nd home would likely prolong that to an unacceptable duration (to stay at my parents).

The easiest option is surely not to get divorced and to resolve our issues, if only that was an option.

Honestly, by the time you've faffed around paying fees and stamp duty to move her from the 4 to a 3 bed house there won't be that much left over. I would leave open the option for her to stay there and try to negotiate something where she stays in the house in return for something favourable to you. You will want to ringfence your pension for example in return for her having more quick assets.

What a financial case will also hinge on is also the length of marriage and cohabiting relationship. She and you will have to provide mortgage raising capacity at fdr. Have you been to mediation yet? Does she have any parental (or other relatives) that could stump up cash to buy you out?

Unfortunately I can't help you more - when I divorced there was much more in the pot to play with and I dont understand what outcome will be reached when you're limited like this.

Oh and keep your job, lol only an idiot would swap out for one with less than half the salary (and still have commitments which would limit the amount of time you can spend with the kids).

@IsItBetter

So much reason!

Married ~9 years.

I want to go to therapy / anything and although she is indicatively supportive of this during verbal discussions, when it comes to booking something, or her being proactive in reviewing a list of potentials, she is suddenly very quiet.

Does her lack of desire / intention to go to remediation going to be a factor during any potential court hearing? Would they see that as a complete disregard to be reasonable?

I should add - at this stage, she hasn't actually told me she wants a divorce, she has simply told me we're separated and that there's no prospect of resolving our issues. I presume the lack of commitment to divorce is because we're currently living together (in different bedrooms - wonder if this was a factor in her pushing to buy a 4 bed house?) and the lack of change that brings about. As far as I see, right now, she has everything she wants - no marriage, no commitment to me, all the financial benefits of being married to me, the house, etc. I'm really struggling to see why she'd want to divorce me right now. I'd be interested to hear from some EW who have been in this situation. Do the logistics outweigh the emotionals sometimes?

Yes but the Op suggested that he only took the job because it suited the family at the time and he is not career driven.
Your wife appears to want her cake and eat it , but then we are only listening to your side ( although your posts do suggest you are being reasonable).
Keep the big house, keep the kids financially secure that's fine but you are only mid thirties , you are highly likely to meet someone else .... what then?
If you get fed up of travelling for work will you be able to continue paying what you propose?
Good luck with whatever you decide.

Are your children the same sex? Could you both buy really nice 2 bed places and they share a room - at least until your wife is established in work and she and you could afford to buy bigger again?

I realise that children sharing rooms is tantamount to child cruelty on MN so feel free to disregard this suggestion and if they're different sexes I guess it's a moot point anyway.

Good God I couldn't cope with living together once we were separated - although we were still sharing a bed too (no action for years) - it messed with my head too much. So I'd be surprised if your EW is overly happy with that arrangement. Unless....is there another man? It sounds a bit like there might be.

With regard to making your home feel like the kids home, I have some experience of this process right now and I can tell you it isn't easy. One aspect is that the kids are only here 50% of their time - so it's taking a long time for it to look lived in - and with your dc potentially only staying 1 or 2 nights a week that will be even harder. Also, their beautiful home in the family home will always feel more familiar so I'm fighting a losing battle it feels sometimes.

One tip - we call it home1 and home2. If it's mum's house and dad's house then where do the dc call home...?

Would you consider signing the house over to her if you keep your pension and other assets - then you can start again?

How much is rent on a 3 bed in your area or a 100% mortgage (If you could get one )? You seem to think that 2.5k a month is a lot to live comfortably fir you - it’s not if your rent or mortgage is 1-1.5k or similar plus food, petrol, council tax etc...... no idea but it might not in reality be as much as you think it is

@Misty9

I have my suspicions regard another man but it's somewhat irrelevant and is only only going to cause more resentment so I'm ignoring that for now.

Sharing the house is fine, as it is. If she finds it uncomfortable then I really don't care. I've got a bed in the spare room, I am away a lot at the moment anyway (just by chance) and we spend time together at weekends with the kids.

I would consider giving her the house but no way she could afford or get a mortgage for the repayments.

@millymollymoomoo

Rent is about 1k/month, it's cheaper to buy even if you factor in extras, I believe my parents would give me the deposit with it written into their will that it be taken out when they die.

2.5k is my spare take home each month on top of that I get a 15% bonus and a few 10's of K shares each year. Presuming she didn't claim on these, that would allow me to have all the extras such as holidays etc.

A mortgage for a house I'd "choose" is about 900/month but that depends massively on the deposit I have.

I'm genuinely concerned that if it's not "easy" she'll move away. As she said "I've no reason to stay othe than you"

So you have £120k equity in a large 4 bed house worth about £350k, and 3 bed houses start from about 200k.

Selling the 4 bed sounds like a no-brainer to me. You are both going to need to pay mortgage or rent - £120k doesn't stretch far between 2 properties. Before, you had 4 bedrooms, now you want a minimum of 6, and STBXW wants 7. 7 seem out of the question. Is 6 bedrooms realistic? If not, what are you going to compromise on?

Also what do you want for your children's lives? You could insist that your STBXW needs to suck it up and work FT, handling all the childcare M-F plus more. However that does sound unfair when your work (which is important cashflow) is restricting her flexibility (assuming she'd have the children) and thus her earning power. Most importantly of all though, is it in your children's best interests for them to be in wraparound 5 days a week while your ex works FT and you are out of the country? It works for some people but as a family who's chosen to have a SAHM, I'm guessing it would be important to you both to have one of you around for some pickups or after school time? Some degree of you supporting her finances to enable that for your children sounds ok to me.

I'm going to chuck some radical ideas at you - probably all rubbish but just in case it kicks off any thoughts:

• appreciate you both want "proper" family homes but you could consider 2 bed. Maybe the kids share for a few years, then either you move or parent sleeps in the lounge for a while until you can afford a 3 bed.
• I once met someone who had a novel set up. The children lived 100% in the old family house, and the parents bought a separate small flat as a crashpad. One parent was in the family house on their days while the other used the crashpad, then they swapped. It sounded incredibly hard for the parents to me, financially, emotionally and practically, but pretty amazing for the kids to have that stability - always in their own room with all their stuff. My friend was very self-effacing about it - she said children are less well equipped than adults to live in 2 different houses so it seemed natural to her.
• realistically if the kids are not staying with you many nights, they should be OK with smaller bedrooms. Look at decent 2 beds, taking bed2 yourself and splitting the master into 2 small rooms for them. Rooms don't have to be large for them to be (a) lovely and (b) theirs.
• I do hear what you're saying about the flexibility needed in your job. It's just people's circumstances change. Many people say they can't possibly ever do a school drop off because their office NEEDS them there by 8.30. Then someone who does the same job comes back from parental leave needing to do a couple of drop offs a week, and actually the world keeps turning and they are not sacked. There is often a bit more flex than it may first appear. It's normal for people with children to have a degree of commitment to childcare built into their week and even if there isn't in your office, someone has to go first. You might have to accept a bit more structure to enable your STBXW to hold down a job. Work may not like it, they may grumble, but if you knuckle down and show them you can make it work, most employers will get used to it.

Sorry for the essay. All meandering thoughts rather than knowledge.

Good luck with whatever you decide

But she might be able afford a mortgage of £50-60k on CM+benefits+earnings or small SM. If she had all the equity towards a £200k house. If you are officially separated then don’t give her access to your full wage. Pay bills and kids stuff / essentials into separate account or direct and keep the rest of your finances separate. Perhaps split the £20k savings 50:50 now into separate accounts. She will have to mediate unless she wants to blow her £10k on lawyers. I supported a sahd who was supposed be running a business from home and he only took financial responsibility for himself when forced to. He would never have done it as long as he had access joint account. It was making of him as he’s turned his work life around. Tell her to claim benefits for her own expenses. Kids can have a nice life without a big house. In your shoes I wouldn’t want to maintain a house I would get a nice 2/3 bed apartment somewhere with lots for kids do when they visit that you can lock up and leave when travelling. You just don’t feel as sentimental about houses after divorce I think. Even if you stay in the family house it never feels the same. The kids will benefit more by nice holidays, extra tuition if they need it, school trips and happy parents with time for them than having a big house. In fact smaller homes encourage the kids to interact more rather than isolate themselves own rooms. My friend lived abroad for a year with kids in a city centre apartment in block with gym and pool and has just moved back to suburbia into a big house and never sees the kids now! She hates it and misses their apartment and the kids miss having pool, shops and restaurants on their doorstep. I think it will be hard to recreate a second family home but you can create something new and different where they want to spend time.