STAHM Staying in family home post divorce

[ustbxh]

To be clear - I'm the STBXH - I've also posted in Legal but hoping for a more real-life set of replies based on experience here.

My wife has decided that I should now become the ex husband. Totally against my desires, but we've had our issues and I can't pretend it's a surprise or totally unwarranted.

We live in a large 4 bed house - with currently a circa. 65% LTV mortgage. Payments are a bit more than 1100/month.

Being a SAHM she has no / very minimal income. I am what I believe is described here as a "high earner", base around 100, with car allowance + bonus + shares nearly 130.

We have two children around 4 & 7 (by the time this happens)

Her thoughts are she'll stay in the house with the kids. I will be paying around 1100-1200/month in CM and she has suggested to me I should cover the remainder of household finances via spousal maintenance. This would be a total (CM+SM) of around 2400/month. This would not include any of the extras like house savings required to run a house or child's activities.

This would leave me a little over 2500/month from my salary.

We appear to be in the exceptionally fortunate (and rare - thus I am struggling to find other posts) position that there is more than enough money in the monthly pot to fun a reasonable lifestyle for both of us and our children.

My concerns are this:

1. Without selling the house, we can't release equity (monthly payments would become an issue etc) thus I can't move on and buy my own house / home.

1. By her staying in property, as it's joint ownership, any future property I bought (I could save a deposit by living with parents for a while) would attract a silly amount of stamp duty almost equal to a deposit.

1. There'd be nothing stopping her finding a new partner and him living with her in the home that I pay for in it's almost entirety.

Thus, my desire is to sell the property, I can then buy a new family home where I can live and the children have their own home at my place - none of this "dad sleeps on sofa" stuff.

This would leave her with a sizeable amount of cash (maybe 90-100k?) however no benefits (due to cash) and limited options for a mortgage. A 3bed house here is crica. 200k on the bottom end of the scale.

What I'm really looking for information on is

1. Has anyone been in a similar situation - if so how did it work out for you?
2. Am I being unreasonable expecting to sell our family home, given the consequences of that are that she'll likely need to rent?
3. Should I accept that kids always come first and that I should accept that there's enough money to achieve this and that this is probably the least worst option? Even if I fund this for the next 16 or so years until the kids are no longer living at home?

As I said, I've posted over in Legal so I'm less interested in the legal / technical side and more interested in the moral sides.

Thanks

"If she's going to get more or less her way with the financial side, I'd expect a significant degree of flexibility regarding access to the kids when I'm at home."

Courts don't like this, you are merging childcare and finances, using your financial power to dictate child issues.

I am with you on not giving up the job OP. To do that would have a major long-term effect on your children’s living standards as well as your own. I’m a working mother and I’ve managed to juggle sickness, holidays etc and stay working. OK, I am on reduced hours due to child commitments (courts take no notice of this BTW) but I still have a good job and both my children, who are 100% dependent on me, need me to earn that to support them!

You can’t just jack in a job like that. They don’t grow on trees. Although maybe you could try to negotiate some sort of deal to make seeing kids easier - and caring for them too. I now work from home some of the time - I think you said you do that anyway. Travel is trickier. But on your salary you could even hire someone to help. It’s not easy at short notice but it’s possible to have some sort of longer-term set-up. For example an au pair.

As a mum I have always been made to feel guilt about working. But if I didn’t have that job now my kids would be suffering big-time. Someone once advised me that they do grow up and become independent and then what will you have left if you quit? And who is going to fund all the many things they’ll want to do from gap year to uni?

I see having the children and her working as two distinct things though

Why? I think she is being unreasonable. Absent abuse and mistreatment if she wants to leave she needs to accept that comes with changes. But it is true that in any reasonable split you should be able to rely on the partner for a little regular childcare while you work. Asking her to work weekends when both children will be at school during the week is not fair. Maintenance etc then to be fair needs to consider wrap around care costs so she can work and you will need to step up during holidays, like other parents. If you cannot envision finding a week each term holiday then it may be you need to start the plan from scratch and look at how it would work with a new job. Personally I’m happily married, my dh earns 80% of what you do so a reasonable amount, and I would never accept that he can’t share childcare with me. I work, he works, and when the baby is sick we alternate days home. When it comes to school holidays it will be half each. If he says that doesn’t work I would say he needs to make it work or find a new job.

Don't move out of the house, move into the spare room while everything is going on.

Suggest selling the house so two separate houses can be brought. She may not agree however this is a reasonable request.

I understand the comments about access to your children and your job. You have mentioned that your wife is starting to use the children as weapons, how do you know this won't continue if you don't give her what she wants? I think realistically you have to put it into your head you will pay the highest amount for CMS, due to the commitments to your job.

My advice find the best solicitor you can afford. If your wife wants to keep to the same standard of life that she has now, be prepared to go to court with probably the outcome being 60/40 or 67/33.

@IsItBetter

• Equity about £120k
• Monthly take home about £5k + adhoc bonus and shares - probably equates to about 6k/month if we averaged it out +Maybe 20k cash in savings (I expect we'll spend this on legal fees sorting this poop out. +70k in pension pot

I'm mid 30's.

Courts don't like this, you are merging childcare and finances, using your financial power to dictate child issues.

I appreciate this and am very concerned to not appear that I am using anything financial against her and the kids, but this is the facts, my job is SIGNIFICANTLY overpaid because of the logistical and unsociable nature of it. My whole package with bonus + shares is somewhere around 130k. If I were to do a comparable (skills wise) job locally I would be fortunate if I could earn 50k, 40k would be more realistic. The sums simply do not add up in that scenario so for this to be dismissed (by the courts) as "using my financial power" is completely unfair as we'd be in a significantly worse situation all round if I suddenly earned 50k.

Okay - so I don't quit my job - I think we all generally agree on this.

I get 5 weeks/year holiday - I am also fortunate that my parents are local and will help.

So what are my options? Pay her what she wants and let her live in the house and accept I can't realistically buy a house (due to stamp duty / LTV etc)?

We can't give you a definite answer. You really need to seek professional advice.

Even if the status quo of your job and her SAHM role doesn't change immediately, there isn't any reason why the family house shouldn't be downsized to something more sensible with a view of her taking the costs on as she finds her feet with getting/increasing her work as the children get older. You both have to work out how to manage childcare, but realistically if she wants a good life, she should provide for it, even if you cover proportionately more of the children's costs.

But it seems to me that you don't want to consider this even though all PPs have suggested this is a much fairer outcome and one less likely to create resentment in the long run as you both move on. Good luck with your negotiations, whatever you decide.

@Millyanon

But it seems to me that you don't want to consider this even though all PPs have suggested this [...]

Do you mean downsizing? I'd be more than happy to. I don't believe she'd get a mortgage and there isn't enough equity to buy somewhere outright so I'm not sure how it would work as it wouldn't be my residence so would that mean I'd need to get it as a Buy to Let?

If you are able to sell and both of you can afford to buy 2 smaller places each... why wouldn't you do this?

And why on earth would you pay more cm than required legally? You are a high earner so they will be getting plenty, they will not be disadvantaged.

And never chuck in a high paying job or else your options will shrink. Buy yourself a smaller home close to your current home and focus on making a home that your dc want to live in when you are able to have them to stay. Who knows where your career will lead you, your work may change and you may have more stability and time at home in the future.

Why would she not get a mortgage? If she starts working and has child maintenance she’d be able to get a mortgage. Of course how much is a different answer but that still doesn’t mean you should pay for everything. How long do you envisage paying the 2400 pr mth? 15 years? What if you lose your job, or are sick or some major life event happens? What % split would you get when the house eventually is sold with you having paid 100% of it....

If you have around 200k if assets she’s likely to get around 60-70% of that plus child maintenance and maybe time bound spousal. Assume your both roughly the same age. If you pay her spousal fir the next 15 years what then? Because then she’ll be 50 with no income either. Now she’s young enough to go out to work and start paying her own pension etc.

Yes splitting finances are hard, yes generally everyone is worse off, but divorce means change and moving on independently and the aim here should be to see how that can be achieved sooner rather than later

@millymollymoomoo

But as has been mentioned if due to my job I can only have the kids 1 or 2 nights a week it's hard for her to work? Gah this is such a mess.

Loads of women work with children including myself. I don’t know why you think that is not possible. I’ve worked full time since mine were both 6 months and understand it can be a juggle at times but millions do it!

Mortgage capacity: speak to an IFA about what she could borrow with all she gets/would get coming in - child related benefits, CM as directed by CMS, court agreed maintenance if any, and part time income she could earn. Please don't assume zero, a number of lenders take CM/SM/benefits into account.
Buying options: check with an IFA re types of mortgages available. There are mortgages available for people wishing to buy jointly/as investors (ie not all living together).
Guarantor? (not ideal).
Affordability: Shared ownership? Part rent/part buy with option to purchase more over time?
Or downsize before finalising absolute and be tenants in common in the usual way?
Just don't make the assumption it isn't possible without researching it with professional help first.

And if you don't downsize immediately, do try keep everything time limited, so that you become financially independent of each other as soon as possible and can move on.

@millymollymoomoo

Some people on this thread seemed to think it was unreasonable / unrealistic for her to work and parent while I am away so much with my job.

PS I have two young children, minimal contact with father (no overnights at all!). I work full time.

And why on earth would you pay more cm than required legally? You are a high earner so they will be getting plenty, they will not be disadvantaged
Please ignore this. Your children should be kept in what you have considered a reasonable fashion. That’s still the parents responsibilities. I’ve never seen anyone on here say the cm actually covers half the cost of keeping children (not to mention women have often sacrificed earning power )

Can you not get a nanny for when they are at yours? Then you can travel last min etc.

Please ignore this. Your children should be kept in what you have considered a reasonable fashion. That’s still the parents responsibilities. I’ve never seen anyone on here say the cm actually covers half the cost of keeping children (not to mention women have often sacrificed earning power )

Please ignore this.

You need to build a life for yourself in the future without being resentful to your children and your wife.

Your wife is young enough to get a job and help pay for the kids.

Likewise you need to sort your job out so you can spend more actual time with your children. You don't want your children to say "Dad was always working" when they are adults and not have a relationship with you.

"Although I'm not keen on it, as things stand she could stay in the house, I can afford to pay her a good amount of money and still live a perfectly nice life myself."

If I was in your position this is what option I would be going for I've taken this from your own words. The child maintenance will be calculated by them with no negotiation. If you can afford to give her a bigger share of equity so she can stay in the house by getting a job and getting a small mortgage and you still have enough money to have a nice life why wouldn't you? Surely this would be the best outcome for your children as well? I know as a parent going through a divorce I cannot wait to be non reliant on my high earning husband. I know that I will never earn the money that he is on and mine and the childrens lives will change but we will be happy! Something that money can't buy.

Your wife needs to get a job. You cannot provide for her and her lifestyle forever and the longer she's out of employment the worse it will be for her. How is she going to cope when the kids have left home? She will have no work history and no income.

@2018anewstart

The problem is she'd not be able to get a mortgage for the required amount. I'd have to remain on the mortgage and it would only be viable to fund it via spousal maintenance payments

Also I'd like to add I believe being involved in your children's lives far outweighs any monetary benefits that a high earning job provides. My son is at his happiest kicking a football around and it costs nothing. When your children look back on their life would you like them to say our dad was rarely around but we had everything we wanted materialwise. Or it was tough when our parents split because money was tight but we were lucky as we were provided with so much love and care from the two of them and they were there for us. I know which one I would want.

Certain companies will allow spousal maintenance to be included in the mortgage calculation. Therefore, if she is able to find a job and rely on you for spousal maintenance for a few years to get on her feet she may be able to manage the mortgage. This would also give her a few years to possibly decide to downsize. If you force her to sell and move into rented it us unlikely she will ever be able to afford to buy as her payment will be going to a landlord. Do you really want that for her and your children? If she meets someone else and they move in spousal maintenance will stop I believe.

Get good legal advice and don't be emotional about it. You are divorcing you and moving on in different directions. She can't expect you to pay out what you are currently paying, that is rediculous, you don't live there anymore!

You have many years ahead of you. You may want another family, travel, business ventures, a different career/study. You will also want to save to help your dc in the future. Don't limit yourself by paying more than the court will order.

@2018anewstart

It's a valid point, to an extent. I dont agree you can be happy if you're needing to live in almost poverty and can't afford basic needs for your family.