STAHM Staying in family home post divorce

[ustbxh]

To be clear - I'm the STBXH - I've also posted in Legal but hoping for a more real-life set of replies based on experience here.

My wife has decided that I should now become the ex husband. Totally against my desires, but we've had our issues and I can't pretend it's a surprise or totally unwarranted.

We live in a large 4 bed house - with currently a circa. 65% LTV mortgage. Payments are a bit more than 1100/month.

Being a SAHM she has no / very minimal income. I am what I believe is described here as a "high earner", base around 100, with car allowance + bonus + shares nearly 130.

We have two children around 4 & 7 (by the time this happens)

Her thoughts are she'll stay in the house with the kids. I will be paying around 1100-1200/month in CM and she has suggested to me I should cover the remainder of household finances via spousal maintenance. This would be a total (CM+SM) of around 2400/month. This would not include any of the extras like house savings required to run a house or child's activities.

This would leave me a little over 2500/month from my salary.

We appear to be in the exceptionally fortunate (and rare - thus I am struggling to find other posts) position that there is more than enough money in the monthly pot to fun a reasonable lifestyle for both of us and our children.

My concerns are this:

1. Without selling the house, we can't release equity (monthly payments would become an issue etc) thus I can't move on and buy my own house / home.

1. By her staying in property, as it's joint ownership, any future property I bought (I could save a deposit by living with parents for a while) would attract a silly amount of stamp duty almost equal to a deposit.

1. There'd be nothing stopping her finding a new partner and him living with her in the home that I pay for in it's almost entirety.

Thus, my desire is to sell the property, I can then buy a new family home where I can live and the children have their own home at my place - none of this "dad sleeps on sofa" stuff.

This would leave her with a sizeable amount of cash (maybe 90-100k?) however no benefits (due to cash) and limited options for a mortgage. A 3bed house here is crica. 200k on the bottom end of the scale.

What I'm really looking for information on is

1. Has anyone been in a similar situation - if so how did it work out for you?
2. Am I being unreasonable expecting to sell our family home, given the consequences of that are that she'll likely need to rent?
3. Should I accept that kids always come first and that I should accept that there's enough money to achieve this and that this is probably the least worst option? Even if I fund this for the next 16 or so years until the kids are no longer living at home?

As I said, I've posted over in Legal so I'm less interested in the legal / technical side and more interested in the moral sides.

Thanks

Regarding custody, it's complicated by my job. I work away a lot, sun/Friday, mon/Friday etc, but then I'll work from home for a week or two. If she's going to get more or less her way with the financial side, I'd expect a significant degree of flexibility regarding access to the kids when I'm at home. Very primitive talks have indicated she would not want this (possibly as she'd see her CM at risk) and instead talked about 2 nights a week. However there are weeks where two nights would not be possible.

Fact is, the maintenance she's talking is only potentially possible due to my job, my job pays so well due to the relativity unsociable nature of the travelling.

I'd see there needs to be an accepted consequence of me staying in this job being that my access would be sometimes irregular. With very rare exceptions, I am always at home on a Saturday night.

You should sell the house and agree with a solicitor how much equity to give EW. Personally I think she should get a part time job for the next x years and then be expected to work full time once the kids get to an agreed age. Are you asking for 50:50 with the kids that might make your ew think how lucky she is.

Perhaps you could consider changing your job so that you are around to have the kids 50:50?

It's something I've considered, but it would be about a 50% paycut. So there's lots of factors to consider

You need to think about what you will do with an ill 4 year old. They get quite ill and often at that age - who will stay home with them?

You say you aren't willing to take a 50% pay cut, which is fine, but the wife isn't going to keep.a job long if she's off work all the time (and there also arent that many flexible part time jobs, in reality).

You need to be realistic about how your wife working will work, and what changes YOU will have to make to allow that to happen. If you want your wife to work, YOUR work and life will need to change too.

I'd certainly be telling her that if she is only offering two set days a week then you will have changed job before the divorce goes through and she'll get a lot less. Alt she agrees to X days a month agreed months in advance.

@PicsInRed

You're obviously reading a different thread to mine. I absolutely have not said that I am unwilling to change jobs.

The fact of the matter is simple. Right now, as things stand financially, we can (if she is sensible) afford two comfortable homes.

I take home over 5k on a usual month and bonus and shares on top throughout the year. It is absolutely more than feasible for us to provide a high quality, dual home family for our children on my salary.

What a 50% paycut would allow is for me to have equal custody and as you say be around when things get tough.

What a 50% pay cut does not allow is for me to provide two homes for my children and creates a completely different set of issues, problems and stress.

Everyone likes to talk about how money doesn't make you happy which is absolutely true, but not having enough money to give your kids the life they need, through choices you've made is no life either. There is a happy medium here and that's her being accepting that our financial freedom comes with some logistical consequences.

@SleepingStandingUp

We've been separated a matter of weeks and she's already using the kids. I am not going to stoop so low.

If I have the kids 1,2 or 4 nights a week would not materially affect the amount of money I am willing to contribute. Overall, the day to day running of a child is very little. What's expensive is housing, clothes, activities, birthdays, Christmas, holidays. None of which are affected by the number of days I have my kids.

Sorry I didn't mean it like that, I meant tell her that if she's insisting it is two days a week or nothing, then your only option is to change jobs immediately so you can have them. Not threaten to give her less money cos she's mean to you

Sorry but I think she's being cheeky. She decided to end the marriage so why should she get to live in the house and you have to move? The children are at a age where she could now get a job and pay towards mortgage if she wants to carry on living there or sell the house. You sound really lovely and I think she's taking advantage

She really is being a CF and completely wants the best of both worlds.

I'm in a similar situation to your EW ustbxh but our marriage breakdown was mutual and I was the one to move out. H earns about 4x as much as I ever could - and I have a professional job (from which I took several years out to look after our two dc, now 5 and 7) - and he takes home about the same as you. As it stands, he is paying me spousal maintenance for 3 years because I would not be able to afford to live separately otherwise. There is no child maintenance as we are sharing care, and I'm not entitled to any benefits beyond child benefit. I work 18 hours a week and took that job before we split, but even though I could leave it and get a higher paid, greater hours role, us having relocated to his home area makes my employment opportunities somewhat limited. And I wouldn't move away with the kids.

We are likely going to split assets 60/40 in my favour and the family home, with significant equity in it, will likely have to be sold to enable me to buy. At the moment H is still in the family home and I wanted to avoid too much disruption for the dc but I am hating renting... And I need to put my needs first as well as thinking of the kids. Getting a mortgage instead of renting is also the main way I will be able to reduce my outgoings and not need spousal.

Conversations with H about assets are the only part of our split which isn't amicable; he seems to think that it's ok for him to be relatively unaffected financially but for me to be on the bread line . I think we'll end up in mediation.

What a 50% pay cut does not allow is for me to provide two homes for my children and creates a completely different set of issues, problems and stress.

Your wife is perfectly capable of working, bringing in money and providing for herself. Yes it would be a different life but they would have their dad around.

Working away that Uclh I suspect it would be very hard for you to have any sort of meaningful life tbh.

PicsInRed what do you think single parents (most of the ones I know, like me, work full time) do when their kids are ill? We take emergency parental leave, share the time off with ex partners, take annual leave and beg for help from whoever we can - my parents live 600 miles and a sea crossing away. Twice when DS was in YR and Y1 I took unpaid parental leave to cover summer holidays as I had used up so much annual leave covering his illness.

OP - you need to apply for two court hearings once you have got your decree nisi (or maybe even before - please check if you can) - one for child contact arrangement and one for financial matters. They are dealt with separately (thank goodness). I think you should have a case for a clean break sale of assets and a good amount of shared care. Good luck!

I'm sorry I've not RTFT, but one thing that jumped out at me was you said that if your STBXW got a lump sum from the assets her benefits would be compromised. I seem to remember that there is a rule that if you get a sum out of the sale of the marital home due to divorce, you have a certain amount of time to use that money to buy a different home and your benefits are not affected. Worth checking that out?

How much time do you have the kids. Personally I'd be going for 50/50 and a clean break settlement with the house being sold.

She's clearly got her want list put. What's yours?

@Wallywobbles

No offence, but read the whole thread before commenting and you're see why your statement is illogical at best.

I would agree it makes sense to keep the job but the flexibility you want about when you see children will make it harder for her to work as she can’t rely on you for childcare in the same way you rely on her to do it. She can’t rely on you to always do set days so she could for eg work normal office hours. Not many jobs allow that degree flexibility. It will also impact on her ability build up pension. Your future earnings aren’t affected but hers are. What would the 4 bed rent out as? Would it make sense for her to keep it and use income to rent a smaller place with lower running costs. I can see why she would want to hold onto it as an asset / pension given her ability to build up either will be restricted. Although she couldn’t then claim benefits.

Firstly, your STBXW will be expected to find a job. However, in order for her to do this you will also need to be available during school holidays/illness etc..to help share the care. In a marriage when there is a stay at home parent the majority of childcare falls on the stay at home parent. However, after divorce or if both parents work equal responsibility needs to be taken for the children in order that both parents can have a job. As a single mum myself who worked prior to children, stayed at home with them for several years until both in school then went back to work I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to have a XH who says he can't have children due to work when they are ill, snowdays, school holidays etc.. due to his job. He seems oblivious that I work too. If i adopted the same approach as him my children would be out on the street. With regard to the house I am not sure if you sell it and split equity would you both be able to afford to buy smaller house?. If so that would seem the sensible option. Or are you suggesting that you sell the house so you can afford to buy but your wife and children will have to rent? Personally, I don't think that is in the childrens best interests if their mum is going to be the primary carer. Have you considered a mesher order? On a £100k+ salary you really shouldn't have any money worries for the rest of your life. Your STBXW is starting out and she will have to contribute but I doubt that she will ever earn the type of money you are on. I feel like you are genuinely trying to be the decent guy so I hope that it all works out for you. Good luck.

You're obviously reading a different thread to mine. I absolutely have not said that I am unwilling to change jobs.

And I never said you are unwilling to change jobs. We could do this all day... 😉

You did express unwillingness to take a 50% payout. That's your choice, but she has choices too. She doesnt want to be married to you anymore and that is going to include being your home base child care, which you visit around work trips. If you want a more equal split of custody and assets, unfortunately your job will need to significantly change. That will be difficult to hear, but the same will go for your wife's feelings about no longer being sahm to her kids. Divorce sucks for everyone.

You mentioned that you can have two comfortable homes if she is "sensible". The thing is that "sensible" is subjective - your idea of sensible (as per above) may seem like her idea of hell on earth. She probably wants to move on, date again and see much less of you (other than coparenting). She will want her own money and not to be dependent on your good will. That is the reality of divorce. It will not be as it was before.

She WILL eventually need to get a job. You will need to scale back yours, if you want an active role in your children's lives. I wish you luck and really hope that you both can come together and make an amicable agreement which both can live with.

@2018anewstart

I fully appreciate the child care issues - I see this regularly with my friends. The fact is simple though - my inconvenient job will allow the best financial stability and upbringing for the children. If I change jobs to be more available, then she is going to have to drastically change literally everything about their lives. Although I'm not keen on it, as things stand she could stay in the house, I can afford to pay her a good amount of money and still live a perfectly nice life myself.

For her to try and use the logistics of my job against me while being unwilling to change her standards of living is ridiculous - I am not saying this is the situation.

Regarding work - the assumption would have to be that I'm unavailable during the week, but I am always available Saturday and Sunday. I see having the children and her working as two distinct things though. On the weeks I am at home, there's no reason I couldn't see them more - just as I do now when I'm at home.

Selling the home would not give enough cash to buy anything out-right - for either of us. My borrowing potential is so high thus I should be able to buy something easily, however she would struggle to get a mortgage.

I’m not sure anyone can add anything else. Everyone has said the house should be sold, she needs to downsize and get a job and that you’re being slightly naive with your willingness to seemingly agree to fund her indefinitely. You don’t see to agree with this, that’s your prerogative.
I hope you find an agreement that you don’t live to regret.
Good luck

@PicsInRed

And I never said you are unwilling to change jobs. We could do this all day...

Sorry, this is hard, and I feel like I'm keeping an open mind about everything and felt you were being unfair. :)

I fully agree regarding the job and access to children etc. We have previously discussed extensively this exact situation (pre-split) and always decided that the current situation outweighed the idea of her working.

If we're going to now change this, then we need to accept that the current standard of living is not a valid base-line to base the divorce on. If we aren't going to change the job situation, we need to accept that my involvement with the children will be adhoc and the upside of that is that there are no/minimal financial concerns.

I honestly do not know what the best outcome is. But right now I am struggling to see that changing jobs is in the children's best interests.

You haven't really stated what your financial position is. What is the house worth and the mortgage, what are your joint savings and liabilities and what pension provision do you have?

I think you need to get good legal advice - especially with regard to your pension.