Wife has asked for a divorce

[Carrot09]

Hi all - long time lurker, first time poster. It’d be great to get a woman’s perspective on my marriage (I don’t really have any close female friends/relatives who I’d want to unload this on...!)

A couple of weeks ago, my wife sat me down and told me we were getting a divorce. At first, I assumed it was something we could talk about; it rapidly became clear that she was adamant. I did the usual (I assume) - cried, pleaded, all a bit undignified!

In all honesty, things haven’t been good for a while. There haven’t been many big set piece arguments, but we’ve been going through the motions really. I’ve also been very irritable/snappy and critical for a while (including of her weight).

Having really sat down and thought about it, I think the main reason for this - frankly sh*t - behaviour is that I’ve been completely wrapped up/stressed by work for years now - it pays well, but takes over my entire week and great chunks of the weekend, so I don’t really ever contribute much around the house. That’s left to my wife (who also works full time, albeit in a less intense industry). We have a two year old daughter, and while I do loads on weekends, I have to admit I’m not really present on the weekdays.

I must admit I’m struggling at the moment - we have a lovely life (materially anyway), and it feels like there’s a lot to throw away. I get that I’ve been a pretty awful husband, but on the other hand I’ve never so much as looked at another woman, don’t really drink or go out, and pay all my money straight into our mortgage. It just feels like although I’ve probably worn her down emotionally, I’m not the world’s biggest b*stard.

What do you think - I will throw anything at it to save this marriage (though I’ve probably never looked much like I cared). Do wives who’re pushed this far just tend to make their minds up, or is there anything I can do to drag this back from the brink?

Your honesty is breathtaking- in a good way- but you’ve a LOT of work to do if you think you can resurrect the marriage.

I have a similar husband to you, but further down the line. He left me to bring up DS pretty much on my own, as he was busy working during the week and weekends too. I couldn’t give a stuff about the money. I married him and not the lifestyle. He’s then started on about my weight. That, and the controlling nature of his personality made me just check out of the marriage. You can only do so much.

Tell your DW what you’ve told us. Try counselling if only for yourself. Good Luck.

Sorry, by settlement I meant child arrangements in particular - I realise that wording must have sounded quite mercenary

Thanks a lot guys. I am seeing a counsellor about the anger/controlling stuff. It’s proven pretty telling - work I think has had a lot to do with it, as well as a bit of other trauma type baggage from my past

It did sound mercenary but you have admitted that you are mercenary and that is one of the reasons your marriage failed.

Look at it another way op. Can you think of any way your wife can re-enter the marriage with an ounce of self respect after everything you have done to push her to this point?

If the answer to that is no then the only loving thing you can do is give her the divorce she has asked for. I doubt child arrangements will be an issue of you are getting on as well as you proclaim. You both love your kids and want the best for them.

try to be a good, best friend to her for now, maybe you can win her back.

Sorry, by settlement I meant child arrangements in particular - I realise that wording must have sounded quite mercenary

So after two years of not bothering with your child on weekdays you’re suddenly worried that you won’t get to see them on weekdays?

The problem with trying to win back is that it is so forced and manipulative. And what if you don’t succeed? Will you snap back to being horrible guy again?

Have you really, really changed, or are you just so scared of losing everything?

Agree with airbourne fluffy thing..

I think you really need to have a good undisturbed conversation along the lines of what you have said here. It would be an unconditional conversation in that you accept that she has fired the starting gun,,,insert all described here, then apologize for any perceived wrongdoings. And then just leave it and await any brown envelopes.

If she is totally adamant about this then she will have planned anyway and the brown envelopes will be on the way.

I know someone who barely knew his relationship was fucked until the big brown A4 package thumped on the door mat one morning from some jumped up solicitor trying to order him out of his own home.

Fair point. I suspect the only way she could re enter was if it wasn’t really the old marriage at all - if she could reason that that one’s dead (and I was responsible for killing it), but there was a new one I could work on and bring a much better me to

The mercenary thing is bang on - my mistake was thinking that going hard at the mortgage for both of us could justify doing naff all in a lot of other respects

@Limpopobongo. There is zero acrimony on the surface - I think there is a lot of (justified) anger in my wife to do with the past but she’s done an amazing job of keeping it friendly through this process so far

I don't want to give you false hope, but I was in your wife's situation and we went a long way down the divorce route but DH managed to pull himself together and turn back into more of the man that I first married than the arsehole workaholic that he had become, and we are still together.

I would recommend finding a good counsellor if your wife is willing, see of you can get a personal recommendation, a bad or inexperienced counsellor could make things worse. It might help resolve some of your issues with each other so that you can move through the divorce process without bitterness. My DH had a very fixed, business-like way of viewing life and the counsellor helped him work through his thought process and understand why his attitude might piss me off. He, like you, thought that bringing in lots of money was enough. In his mind he was the boss and the family were his support team, so I had to make things run smoothly for him and keep him happy but my own happiness was to be dealt with, metaphorically, outside of my working hours. Anyway, over many, many hours of counselling he stopped seeing me as an employee who should be responsive to instruction and grateful for treats that were convenient for him to give and went back to seeing me as a partner who was deserving of emotional investment and consideration.

However, it may be too late for you, you may not be able to adjust your working hours or attitude or she might want a clean break so that she can plan for her future. I certainly felt that if I was on my own almost all the time and most of my contact with DH was being 'managed' by him, then I would be better off to be really on my own and not have to consider my DH's needs.

@mumoftwoyoungkids. It probably looks that way, I get it. Work often involved me doing a 70h week and being away Mon-Thu, so I couldn’t be ther for three evenings/mornings a week, but the Thu evening/Fri morning and evening were (are) really important to me.

@anairborne and @blackamericano, you’ve both taken the words (almost verbatim) out of my wife’s mouth. She also couldn’t give a stuff about the money, and would identify exactly with being treated like an employee

What did you do on those evenings / morning? Did you make your dd’s tea? Did you do her bath? Bedtime routine? Pick her up from nursery? Dress her in the morning? Pack her nursery bag? Take her to nursery?

Or was it more of a vague “smile in her direction while wife does all the work”?

The best thing for your dd if you split is for her routine to continue unchanged. If you were a big part of that then you should push for that to continue. If you weren’t then you need to accept that that was your choice and live with it.

Well it isn’t unheard of for a couple to divorce and remarry.

That is genuinely the only way I think you would get your wife back with her self respect in tact.

You give her the divorce she has calmly and reasonably requested. You treat her how you believe she deserves to be treated. You show her you have changed in your commitment to co parenting and being a good friend.

Then, perhaps if the love is still there on both parts she would consider marrying you again. Maybe.

But if you deny her what she has reasonably requested I don’t think the marriage will ever flourish, even if you wear her down enough to call off proceedings.

You have to be willing to lose everything and respect her wishes because you love her deeply, otherwise you haven’t really changed. You’ve just paid lip service to preserve your lifestyle.

I’m not sure I can deny her anything - I’ve told her that if she wants to start the process then I’ll do what she needs me do (while flagging that I’m sorry I’ve brought it about and it isn’t what I want to happen)

@mumof In terms of routine, I’d be back for bath time usually, then do breakfast and getting ready for granny to look after her for the day. It’s a good point on trying to keep that consistent

@blackamericano - might I ask, did you actually start the technical divorce proceedings before you reconciled?

Yes we did, we had a lot of counselling and although he was changing it was quite slow so I kept the divorce process moving on. It's slower here than the UK (we're in Ireland). We'd been through mediation for the financial aspect, which couldn't be resolved as it was complicated and what we each wanted was too far apart (business, several properties and potential future inheritances). So we were both talking to our solicitors, and they were talking to each other but we hadn't got as far as court dates. It's not as though there was a sudden Hollywood moment that I decided not to divorce him, it just sort of got better at home and the legal process slowed down.

From the other side, my XDH told me he was unhappy & it was ver. I persuaded him to come to counselling (we had a huge amount of stuff that we'd never really discussed). It didn't help - he'd checked out of our relationship before this point, blamed everything on me, and I tried everything to try to save our marriage but it was pointless, he'd already decided it was over.
I wish he'd been able to talk to me properly about his feelings before we got to this point. But it was too late, he'd written it off already.

If this was in reverse the normal responses would be that the husband already had someone else hence why they are adamant it's over. May not be the case but possibly something else you may have to consider if you do start counselling

How often do we hear this scenario in reverse though?

“Wife habitually puts career first and family second. Frames it as breadwinning. Sees it as a positive because she is always faithful and not a drunk.
Husband is forced to take on all domestic roles (not because he doesn’t work, but because his bottom line is financially less valuable) and all the grunt work in raising the children.
Society reinforces wife’s idea that her first role is to provide financially while husband must maintain the home and maintain the family. If he chooses to work too, well that’s his decision.
Wife makes low blows to husband about his appearance, even though the reason for this is because he is run ragged trying to single handedly keep the family together.
The marriage suffers irreparably, and relationship eventually dies. Husband finally, as a last resort, asks for a divorce.”

The above is not a common Mumsnet thread.

But that man would not automatically be accused of infidelity.

Carrot
I wish my DH had the vision you do. I hope you can still make amends with your DW and make it work. You sound like a reasonable guy. From your DWs point of view, she’ll need a whole heap more engagement from you on many levels. Over the big stuff and the small. 7 days a week.

I’m not sure where you all think that paying off the mortgage is the route to marital bliss! (sorry, but I’m including my H in this too!)
He hasn’t hadn’t the Lightbulb Moment that you’ve had...

Good luck

Sounds like you’ve told her all this, and it hasn’t changed her decision. Respect her decision, get legal advice and seek to agree on arrangements for your DC, housing, finances and so on.

It was very unfair to expect your W to do most of the parenting and housework (because you earned more and were focused on work!); and to criticise and seek to control her.

Actually Loopytiles has made me realise something - they expecting her to do all the housework maybe - just maybe - could be forgiven. As it was you doing the wrong thing but for good intentions.

But the criticising in order to control her - that I would never forgive. Because you purposely tried to make her unhappy in order to get her to behave in a way that was more confident to you. By pushing her down until she was too miserable to object.

If I was her then that would be evidence that you don’t love her - not really. Or that you are someone who can only love in a flawed selfish way. And that is not something that I could get over.

Bother! “More convenient” not “more confident”.

I am divorcing a man in very similar circumstances, even down to the 'zombie' we've been living with for years because his job drains him so much. Unlike you my husband never ever criticised me openly, however his contempt was clear in the fact that he would never lift a finger in the house. He would drop food on the floor I just washed and I would always be the one picking it up, that sort of thing. I his eyes, he was the main earner and therefore got to pick and choose the bits of family and domestic life that he wanted to take part in, which was very little. He decided, without discussion, that his roles were DIY and mowing the lawn. My roles were everything else. His attitude was atrocious, communication atrocious, he wouldn't let me go out alone without sulking that I was wasting family time and money. I would rather he just came out with it and call me fat!

Unlike my husband, who thinks I have a perception problem, you are willing to change. Unfortunately, my husband would say my decision to divorce was a bolt out of the blue. That's because even though I've been telling him he has no right to treat me the way he has and he's been skating on thin ice for years, his inherent inability to tune in to a single thing I say ever means he just didn't see it coming. Is there any chance you've had multiple warnings and just didn't think your wife would go through with it, or she was just nagging? Did you think that a luxury lifestyle was enough to keep a good woman chained to the kitchen sink indefinitely? I realise I am projecting, but is this in any way possible?

Even if my husband promised to change (although in my case he believes he can't and being an ignorant, controlling and boring 1950's dad is just the way he is), I wouldn't change my mind. I've grown to really dislike the person he is, can't ever see myself loving him and hate living in the same house as him. If he said that going forward everything would be so much better I still wouldn't change my mind.