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Divorce/separation

Here you'll find divorce help and support from other Mners. For legal advice, you may find Advice Now guides useful.

Original poster

URGENT help re child contact please

96 replies

Homely1 · 24/09/2015 11:18

So separated for some time, cannot think, toddler DC and DH who has been useless now sends me letter for DC staying overnight with him every other weekend PLUS contact for a day on the alternative weekend. Seems like a lot. DC has never stayed away or had very much time alone with DH.

Anyone recommend excellent lawyer who does child related issues in London? Very scared. He's using a very eminent firm.

OP posts:
thejanuarys · 02/10/2015 20:10

sorry about your situation. I'm in the same boat. wealthy ex who has demanded more quality weekend and holiday time, because apparently I get the the glorious weekday time to do all those marvelous things like the school run, washing, dinner, homework, baths, routine, bedtime. The tide is turning in this matter, and sadly it will take women with money and a good barrister to change matters. Until then, we are going to have to roll with it. do wish you luck though. I'm still trying to change my situation.

lookingforlight · 02/10/2015 21:12

Apologies OP. I didn't read your post properly through. It took a re read. I'm mid way through my divorce and this is what I understand.

  1. child contact is one of those things that can remain flexible post divorce. Only those parents who are not amicable tend to end up with child arrangements that are rubber stamped through the courts. I would personally try and avoid that route at all costs. Mainly because children's needs and wants will change (as may yours) as the DC gets older. Have you tried mediation on this issue or are you only communicating through lawyers?

  2. when it comes to DC's, you can try a few different things to see what works. As many have said every other weekend is the norm, but you can have different arrangements. Short term my STBXH have been spending one day each on the weekends with our daughters. It's what works for them as they adjust to us not being together. Medium term we will include a full weekend a month with each parent to allow for weekends away etc. longer term who knows?

  3. overnight. That's a given IMO. Why wouldn't the DC's get to spend a night with their parent? I think that is so critical to bonding.

Finally. Do you have any tangible proof of poor parenting skills? Hate to say it but that is what you may need if that's what you intend to say. That area is extremely tricky and without proof may end up backfiring on you.

Original poster
Homely1 · 03/10/2015 23:52

Thank you so much.

Thejanuarys, do you not have a full weekend with yours? Really?!

lookingforlight, how old are your daughters? Not tried mediation... Process has just started and I'm not sure how he will respond. He's not the negotiating type. I just think mine so young to be away. What sort of proof of poor parenting? He's late, has periods with no contact....

OP posts:
jorahmormont · 03/10/2015 23:57

Fisher Meredith and Bishop & Sewell are two firms that come to mind. Both based in London, both would deal with this kind of matter.

sleeponeday · 04/10/2015 00:03

Contact is about the child, not parents. That applies to him as well as you.

Every other weekend and one midweek night is the norm. It's not the norm for the resident parent to get all the grunt work and none of the weekend quality time. You are well within reasonable bounds to argue for that.

It's also completely reasonable for a baby or toddler to have short but frequent contact, so they don't have too long away from the primary carer, as long as that contact slowly increases up to the usual sort of volume, so the relationship can flourish. But as contact is for the child, courts are often very sensitive to the fact that the child may well want separations from that carer to be quite brief in their earliest days.

It rather depends on whether the toddler is 18 months or 4 years old, really. As well as patterns of care in the recent past. There's no one-size answer.

I can recommend an excellent and very child-centred solicitor in London if you would like that. She's no-nonsense and pro-contact, but also feminist and will not allow anyone to bully you... or your child.

sleeponeday · 04/10/2015 00:06

Oh, and mediation isn't recommended where there has been abuse. If he's very manipulative then that may be a problem - but courts are toxic places, and it would harm your child for things to be resolved that way. Negotiation is always best if humanly possible.

Also forgot to say that you say DS was a baby when you split and that was some time ago and DS is now a toddler, and there's been no contact? That being so you would be sending DS to a stranger for a full weekend, yes? Obviously if that's the situation the relationship needs to be reignited and rebuilt first. No toddler should just be sent to someone they don't know for an overnight if at all avoidable.

Original poster
Homely1 · 04/10/2015 08:45

Thank you so much. There has been contact recently but not alone. There was a period of absence prior to that. What if DH is far for midweek. DC is 3.

OP posts:
sleeponeday · 04/10/2015 12:18

I think you need to focus on three things.

  1. DC has a right to a good relationship with her dad
  2. both parents have to have quality time if at all possible - that means weekends - hence the every other weekend being the norm
  3. children need to feel safe and secure, so continuity matters, and her father needs to build up to every other weekend if contact isn't that frequent or reliable right now.

I don't think contact never being alone is really the issue, tbh. It's the familiarity that matters, and that needs to be solidified before she stays a full weekend, so it is a happy experience for her. The optimal outcome is a nice reliable contact pattern, and her dad being a reassuringly reliable parental presence in her life.

Midweek contact is down to him to facilitate. You don't get to lose almost all quality time with your child because he can't manage mid-weeks. He may be able to arrange something with his employers - who knows. All you can do is offer (and actually you would be offering him more time if you offered say every single Wednesday, than he is asking with every other Saturday, so he can hardly say you are obstructing contact, can he?) There's also an argument that you are offering a more genuine parenting experience to both child and parent with a midweek, because he would be part of the nursery and then school run routine, and part of her daily life, in a way that can't be achieved if it is only weekend contact .

Bellemere · 04/10/2015 13:35

"Midweek" can be on alternate Friday evenings if he can finish early EOW.

sleeponeday · 04/10/2015 14:19

That would eat into the OP's own every other weekend. The net result would be her never having a full, two-night weekend with her DC at all.

I agree it can be a solution if she is happy with it, but she doesn't have to agree with that unless she wants to, any more than he would have to agree to part of her own time eating into one of his weekends with their DC.

Bellemere · 04/10/2015 15:04

No but her ex has now applied to court and they may well order it if it's the only practical way their child can see his father every week. The alternate Friday/midweek contact doesn't need to be overnight. It could be taking the child out for tea.

Original poster
Homely1 · 05/10/2015 07:01

Does it go to court though if letter asking for contact?

OP posts:
lookingforlight · 05/10/2015 07:14

Homely

Mine are 3 and 5. I have no concerns about overnight etc as he has been a huge part in their lives and as their father I simply have to trust him irrespective of what has happened between him and me (and believe you me, he's a piece of work).

Most importantly Your OP was nearly a fortnight ago. Have you taken legal advice?? It's really important that you do this ASAP. You also need a view on how you will pay for lawyers (can you get legal aid etc.

Secondly, since your OP, has he had any contact with your DC? Have any further letters arrived from his lawyers?

lookingforlight · 05/10/2015 07:20

Homely, no a letter from lawyers requesting contact does not go through court. But it's his first step in a process. If you ignore it then he could be building evidence that would support him in court.

If he decides to go to court (unlikely after one letter) you would receive a summons stating that he has a court hearing over this issue. so you would get a heads up.

one question, does he pay maintenance to you for your DC?

Bellemere · 05/10/2015 07:23

Sorry to confuse you OP, I was getting this post confused with another post.

Original poster
Homely1 · 05/10/2015 08:41

Have sought advice... I just feel sick as every day goes by. Maintenance is paid but I believe not what is required. I'm afraid of his response to my letter. I do not know if I should discuss with him personally. Has seen DC since

OP posts:
SurlyCue · 05/10/2015 09:40

What is it you fear in his response to your letter?

SurlyCue · 05/10/2015 09:41

And what is making you feel sick? Can you pinpoint it?

Original poster
Homely1 · 05/10/2015 10:55

That he will reject it and then we will end up in court with a stranger telling us what to do with a baby. He has always been controlling and I feel that he will not understand the need for steps. Then he will continue to demand this and that

OP posts:
SurlyCue · 05/10/2015 12:07

Ok, its understandable that you feel this way. However as someone who has been through court i can assure you that it is nothing to fear. I was as worried as you are to the point I stopped eating and was making myself sick. In reality what happened was i got to put my concerns to the judge, they suggested an initial contact agreement for a 4 week period where contact would take place in a public place with me present. We reviewed again after 4 weeks and i was happy that DC (then a toddler) was happy to continue. So a new order was made for another 4 weeks that contact would begin in the same place and i would leave for one hour with agreement i was to be called if DC became distressed. Back to court after 4 weeks and new order was made to extend contact time and to happen at other parent's home. I only had to see the judge once, the first time. i didnt have to speak to or see exp or his family. It was all arranged between solicitors speaking to each other. A bit of tooing and froing whilst they discussed proposals with each of us and the order was made. It really was agreed between us, the judge will only make a decision if you (or he or both) are refusing to agree terms of contact. You will have a say and the judge will not expect you to hand your son over for two nights straight away. That is something to build up to and my experience is that you will be supported in allowing that to happen over time. Please dont be stressing like you are. I wish i hadnt. Court is often used as a threat so it becomes this big scary word and place but it really isnt. If you are engaging with his solicitor and showing willing to facilitate contact then it really shouldnt be an awful situation (aside from costing a clean fortune!) play fair and it will show in your favour. If he chooses not to play fair that is up to him but i assure you the courts are not stupid, they have seen it all a million times before. Dont you get yourself stressed by his behaviour. You have nothing to be scared of.

Original poster
Homely1 · 05/10/2015 13:47

Thank you for your reassurance x

OP posts:
throwingpebbles · 05/10/2015 13:58

Can you suggest a slow build up? My ex never sPent any real time with our daughter as a baby then suddenly was asking for 50/50 custody once we had split. I resisted even over night to begin with and asked him to build up to that at her own pace. Now she does one night at a time overnight but even that makes her fragile after. I have said we can look to going up to two nights a week after Christmas, the slow build up definitely better from a toddlers perspective I think, and their needs should come first

FoxesSitOnBoxes · 05/10/2015 14:04

taking one of your weekend days might be his ideal solution but I imagine he knows a weekday is more normal. He probably had that chat with the solicitor. Perhaps this is just their opening suggestion to test the water. You might find he gives up on that request fairly easily.
It must be horribly stressful for you Flowers

Original poster
Homely1 · 05/10/2015 14:59

Very stressed, I feel sick all of the time and cannot function. I've said to him always that DC comes first. DH always says DC will be fine- he does not think of DC best interest. I've always said a build up. He just think that she just adapts!

OP posts:
SurlyCue · 05/10/2015 15:09

Very stressed, I feel sick all of the time and cannot function

Ok well stop! It has no bearing on the outcome. It is a huge waste of energy that serves no purpose. You cannot control what he does but you can control how you react to it. You are making this into a very painful time for yourself. You are choosing to become so stressed. I know because i have been there. You need to stop, centre yourself, calm yourself and think rationally. Currently you are panicking. That is no use to anyone and your child will pick up on your stress. Calm down, get plenty of rest and decent meals, speak with your solicitor, be realistic. He will get contact, most likely he will get what he has asked for minus the day time contact on your weekend. But you can have some control over how quickly it gets to that. Your solicitor will be able to guide you with a time frame which you can present to him. He may or may not agree, that is no disaster. Its how these things go. Just remain calm and deal with it. It really isnt a nightmare situation.