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Dementia & Alzheimer's
Assets and paying for funeral
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 16:14
My dad had been in a care home since December 21. He went in for respite after a hospital stay and never came out, the plan was to move him back home with carers, but hospital and respite deteriorated him so much that it was unsafe for him, he lasted 24 hours at home before we had to put him in a permanent care home, it was clear he would have harmed himself or someone else if left alone for a second.
A social worker deemed him to lack capacity in late Jan, he’s under dols.
While he was staying with me prior to that, sept-dec 2021, he finally realised that he wasn’t going to drive again, so he gave his car to dh in the December.
Not that we could afford to insure and run two cars, so it’s been sat in the garage ever since.
With everything that was going on with my dad (it’s been stressful to say the least), we didn’t legally sign the car log book over to dh until April.
We didn’t have the headspace, we were having a nightmare selling my dads home for the care fees, his bank were terrible sorting out the POA on his account, we had to go through complaints the lot, the company who owns the care home were hassling me on a weekly basis for their money as the sale was dragging on.
Anyway, the car has SORN and just sitting there ever since.
I need to sell it. It’s a constant reminder of everything that’s gone on, what’s been lost and we will never be able to afford to run it. And it’s just sat there rotting away.
It’s worth about 2k.
Everyone is giving me conflicting advice. It’s dh car. Log book in his name. So he can legally sell
it and keep the money.
But, my dads money will run out in 10 months.
Are Social services going to ask about his car? They go though bank statement for years back don’t they, to make sure that no assets have been disposed of - they will see he was running one, paying car insurance/petrol etc.
I’ve spoken to two solicitors, both told me conflicting things.
Dh is just going to sell it and we’ll keep the money in a separate account incase they want it. It’s worth about a week and a half of care home fees, for context.
Also, before his money runs out can I pre pay for a direct cremation from his bank account (I have POA)? The charge is 1.4k.
I won’t be able to pay for one when the time comes otherwise. My dad always told me that he had a funeral plan. I finally got the courage to open his “death box” a couple of months ago
and yes, he’s got his funeral planned to an T - only, he didn’t actually pay for it like he led me to believe. He obviously never thought he would have to go into a care home, this all happened within the space of 6 months . He planned what he wanted was on the basis that he thought he would die and leave me as the sole beneficiary with a house and all his savings, he never envisaged it would all go on care fees. So his plans to pay for it are basically, “use the savings in my current account.”
I can’t give him the funeral he wants, that would cost thousands, but I thought I could pre pay for the cheapest option, a direct cremation. That way, we would get his ashes back and could have a memorial.
Again, I’ve been told conflicting things on that.
Sorry if these are stupid questions, I’m not
coping with any of this.
I’ve spoken to solicitors who offer free half hours and say they are specialists this, I’ve spoken to age U.k. and the other charities everyone says to contact, but they tell me something different.
I tried asking the social worker who assed him these things and she just kept talking about “money grabbing families”. These thing are
important and causing me stress, I’d just like to know.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:02
Ex social worker here. In my authority a pre paid funeral plan was judged to be an asset and was added to the clients resources when assessing for funding eligibility. However, the law around this is open to interpretation, and I know that other authorities judge things differently. This is probably why you have been told different things. Sorry not to be more help, but sadly this is a mine field, and I have to say that your social worker doesn't seem to be very helpful ,but she wont be the person assessing. See if you can speak to the manager of the finanical assessment team, titles will vary in different authorities. If you can't do that, and they often won't speak to the public, give your social worker a written list of questions you want answers to, and do via email and cc in her manager. Good luck, and I am sorry you are going through this, its a horrible time. X
MuchTooTired · 12/01/2023 17:09
Have you applied for pip for your Dad? I’ve no direct experience, but have heard that once his assets fall below £23.5k (?) the council can be asked to pay for his care going forwards which would hopefully leave enough money for his funeral?
I'm very sorry you’re going through this, it sounds beyond stressful and heartbreaking.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:13
Yes thats right the current funding threshold is 23,5K. After that its a sliding scale of client contribution until funds fall below '6K when the client does not make any contribution from capital, so there should be enough left for a funeral. Of course any income bar £25 a week for personal expenses will go toward the care fees once the Local Authority takes over funding.
Earholeseyeholesarsehes · 12/01/2023 17:16
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:02
Ex social worker here. In my authority a pre paid funeral plan was judged to be an asset and was added to the clients resources when assessing for funding eligibility. However, the law around this is open to interpretation, and I know that other authorities judge things differently. This is probably why you have been told different things. Sorry not to be more help, but sadly this is a mine field, and I have to say that your social worker doesn't seem to be very helpful ,but she wont be the person assessing. See if you can speak to the manager of the finanical assessment team, titles will vary in different authorities. If you can't do that, and they often won't speak to the public, give your social worker a written list of questions you want answers to, and do via email and cc in her manager. Good luck, and I am sorry you are going through this, its a horrible time. X
We haven’t got a social worker.
She was just the one who put him into respite care. When the 6 weeks of that was up, they were off the case, it was only while the LA were paying for respite as he was unsafest discharged from hospital. He’s self funding at a private home.
I just want to know if I can pay for the direct cremation from his account before his money runs out but no one will give me a straight answer.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:18
He gets attendance allowance.
But that’s only in the last few months and only because someone on here told me he could claim it.
No one else mentioned it. Not the social worker, not the care home, none of the charities I
called for help.
No one has
mwntioned PIP. I have no clue.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:19
You can, but the cost of this will probably be added to his assets for assessment purposes if he becomes eligible for Local Authority funding if you take the money out of his account.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:20
Earholeseyeholesarsehes · 12/01/2023 17:16
We haven’t got a social worker.
She was just the one who put him into respite care. When the 6 weeks of that was up, they were off the case, it was only while the LA were paying for respite as he was unsafest discharged from hospital. He’s self funding at a private home.
I just want to know if I can pay for the direct cremation from his account before his money runs out but no one will give me a straight answer.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:02
Ex social worker here. In my authority a pre paid funeral plan was judged to be an asset and was added to the clients resources when assessing for funding eligibility. However, the law around this is open to interpretation, and I know that other authorities judge things differently. This is probably why you have been told different things. Sorry not to be more help, but sadly this is a mine field, and I have to say that your social worker doesn't seem to be very helpful ,but she wont be the person assessing. See if you can speak to the manager of the finanical assessment team, titles will vary in different authorities. If you can't do that, and they often won't speak to the public, give your social worker a written list of questions you want answers to, and do via email and cc in her manager. Good luck, and I am sorry you are going through this, its a horrible time. X
Grrr @Probablymagrat that was me replying! Christ, I Name changed but went back to kevinyoutwat as it’s the same as my other thread on this board and I wanted to keep it the same.
LangClegsInSpace · 12/01/2023 17:20
You could try calling Age UK. They have some info on this page:
www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:21
While he is self funding he will be eligible for Attendance Allowance, once he is funded by the Local Authority his eligibility for this benefit will cease.
I am not an expert on PIP but I don't think he can have that and Attendance Allowance as they are for the same thing more or less.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:22
LangClegsInSpace · 12/01/2023 17:20
You could try calling Age UK. They have some info on this page:
www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/
I’m sorry to say, I’ve not found them much help when I have spoken to them.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:24
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:21
While he is self funding he will be eligible for Attendance Allowance, once he is funded by the Local Authority his eligibility for this benefit will cease.
I am not an expert on PIP but I don't think he can have that and Attendance Allowance as they are for the same thing more or less.
Yes he’s getting attendance allowance now.
Like I said, no one told me he could
claim that, it was someone on here.
I also know that I have to stop the benefit in good time when his money runs out - no one tells you that either.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:26
And just to reiterate, becuase if might get lost in the name change thing, no social worker has been involved since the 6 week respite care after an unsafe hospital discharge was over.
@Probablymagrat any ideas on the car situation? no one can seem help me on that one.
PermanentTemporary · 12/01/2023 17:28
I think the person who mentioned PIP (personal independence payment) may have meant CHC (continuing health care) funding. The latter pays for care of people in certain circumstances, usually with complex needs. It's hard but not impossible to get - at first sight I don't think your df would be eligible but I'm not an expert. You can read the criteria online. The manager of the care home could fill in the application.
I personally think it would be completely reasonable for your Dad to sell the car as he's no longer driving. That's how I operate the finances - what would they do in these circumstances if they could? But yes I think it's sensible to keep the money separately at present.
Clearly your dad planned a funeral that you would not have to pay for, ie one that he could afford from his own estate. I would use that principle to plan what you do when the time comes.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:29
@Kevinyoutwat sorry our posts keep crossing! Have you a local carers association? they are usually quite good at this sort of thing, and come from the supporting the carer viewpoint.
Also the Local Authority do have a duty of care towards you as a carer and your Dad even if he is self funding. Speaking from experience if you make enough noise you will get support, ask for an urgent carers assessment for yourself. You should get an allocated worker, probably not a qualified social worker, but someone who will be able to access the answers you need. Hopefully anyway, as I said all Authorities vary, and they are really pushed for staff ATM.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:30
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:19
You can, but the cost of this will probably be added to his assets for assessment purposes if he becomes eligible for Local Authority funding if you take the money out of his account.
I’m just going to have to do it that way then. I’m honestly so ground down by all this, I’d rather just know something is in place.
I’m not well myself and if I get worse or my dad outlives me, I can’t add all the funeral crap to the list of things my poor dh will have to take on.
Soontobe60 · 12/01/2023 17:30
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:13
Yes thats right the current funding threshold is 23,5K. After that its a sliding scale of client contribution until funds fall below '6K when the client does not make any contribution from capital, so there should be enough left for a funeral. Of course any income bar £25 a week for personal expenses will go toward the care fees once the Local Authority takes over funding.
Its not 6K, its £14,250.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:32
@Kevinyoutwat legally the car is a gifted asset, and the value of it could be judged to be part of your dads estate. It depends how harshly your Authority assesses finances. If it was me I would sell it and keep it separate, at least it will be one less thing to think about.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:34
Soontobe60 · 12/01/2023 17:30
Its not 6K, its £14,250.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:13
Yes thats right the current funding threshold is 23,5K. After that its a sliding scale of client contribution until funds fall below '6K when the client does not make any contribution from capital, so there should be enough left for a funeral. Of course any income bar £25 a week for personal expenses will go toward the care fees once the Local Authority takes over funding.
Oh thats good, it must have changed since I retired. At least thats a bit more.
Soontobe60 · 12/01/2023 17:36
Earholeseyeholesarsehes · 12/01/2023 17:16
We haven’t got a social worker.
She was just the one who put him into respite care. When the 6 weeks of that was up, they were off the case, it was only while the LA were paying for respite as he was unsafest discharged from hospital. He’s self funding at a private home.
I just want to know if I can pay for the direct cremation from his account before his money runs out but no one will give me a straight answer.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:02
Ex social worker here. In my authority a pre paid funeral plan was judged to be an asset and was added to the clients resources when assessing for funding eligibility. However, the law around this is open to interpretation, and I know that other authorities judge things differently. This is probably why you have been told different things. Sorry not to be more help, but sadly this is a mine field, and I have to say that your social worker doesn't seem to be very helpful ,but she wont be the person assessing. See if you can speak to the manager of the finanical assessment team, titles will vary in different authorities. If you can't do that, and they often won't speak to the public, give your social worker a written list of questions you want answers to, and do via email and cc in her manager. Good luck, and I am sorry you are going through this, its a horrible time. X
No, you don’t need to do this. Once his assets fall below £14,250, he will be funded by his income (pensions ) less £25 a week. The rest of his fees will be funded by the LA. You will have to do a new financial assessment when his assets drop to about £25k, then again when they drop to about £15k. He will be left with enough money to pay for his funeral.
I had to provide bank statements for 6 months for my stepfather’s financial assessment. Sell his car now, it’ll be well over 6 months before you need to complete an assessment.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:36
Soontobe60 · 12/01/2023 17:30
Its not 6K, its £14,250.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:13
Yes thats right the current funding threshold is 23,5K. After that its a sliding scale of client contribution until funds fall below '6K when the client does not make any contribution from capital, so there should be enough left for a funeral. Of course any income bar £25 a week for personal expenses will go toward the care fees once the Local Authority takes over funding.
This is what I mean, I keep getting told different figures!
When I ask the care home about what to do when his money runs out, they just keep saying I will have to top up the fees - I can’t! Then they just ask if anyone else can top them up - there is just me, no one else.
Then they said he will have been there two
years at that point, they can apply to the council to fund. But they will also ask me to top top the weekly fee. I can’t do that - it’s 2k a month top up from the LA fees.
Honestly, I am just going to tell them to give him a weeks notice when he gets to 23k and then social care will have to move him. There is no way on earth I can top up any fees.
Its all so stressful for us.
No one helps, everyone tells us something different.
pinneddownbytabbies · 12/01/2023 17:37
In both the cases where I have had to arrange a funeral for a family member, the funeral costs were paid out of the estate by the solicitor dealing with it. A will in one case, intestate in the other.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:39
Soontobe60 · 12/01/2023 17:36
No, you don’t need to do this. Once his assets fall below £14,250, he will be funded by his income (pensions ) less £25 a week. The rest of his fees will be funded by the LA. You will have to do a new financial assessment when his assets drop to about £25k, then again when they drop to about £15k. He will be left with enough money to pay for his funeral.
I had to provide bank statements for 6 months for my stepfather’s financial assessment. Sell his car now, it’ll be well over 6 months before you need to complete an assessment.
Earholeseyeholesarsehes · 12/01/2023 17:16
We haven’t got a social worker.
She was just the one who put him into respite care. When the 6 weeks of that was up, they were off the case, it was only while the LA were paying for respite as he was unsafest discharged from hospital. He’s self funding at a private home.
I just want to know if I can pay for the direct cremation from his account before his money runs out but no one will give me a straight answer.
Probablymagrat · 12/01/2023 17:02
Ex social worker here. In my authority a pre paid funeral plan was judged to be an asset and was added to the clients resources when assessing for funding eligibility. However, the law around this is open to interpretation, and I know that other authorities judge things differently. This is probably why you have been told different things. Sorry not to be more help, but sadly this is a mine field, and I have to say that your social worker doesn't seem to be very helpful ,but she wont be the person assessing. See if you can speak to the manager of the finanical assessment team, titles will vary in different authorities. If you can't do that, and they often won't speak to the public, give your social worker a written list of questions you want answers to, and do via email and cc in her manager. Good luck, and I am sorry you are going through this, its a horrible time. X
It’s not his car now though.
It’s been in dh name since last april.
But yes, it has to go this week. I can’t have it sat here rotting away any longer.
Who do I contact for a financial assessment and when? The care home take so long to do anything.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:42
pinneddownbytabbies · 12/01/2023 17:37
In both the cases where I have had to arrange a funeral for a family member, the funeral costs were paid out of the estate by the solicitor dealing with it. A will in one case, intestate in the other.
Ok.
His will is easy. He’s just left everything to me, there is no one else.
I have a will leaving everything to dh incase something happens to me so it should all be straightforward.
But I probably will just buy a direct cremation now and the LA can do what ever with the assessment.I can’t leave it to chance incase
I get worse, our youngest is a toddler, my husband will have so much to cope with already.
PermanentTemporary · 12/01/2023 17:45
I think making those arrangements now is perfectly reasonable. It's hardly going to be a huge asset.
Kevinyoutwat · 12/01/2023 17:50
PermanentTemporary · 12/01/2023 17:45
I think making those arrangements now is perfectly reasonable. It's hardly going to be a huge asset.
It’s literally one week of fees for the direct cremation. I think I’d laugh in someone’s face if they had a huge issue with that.
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