Shocking behaviour.

[ubersquiz]

I'm new to this site.

I'm frankly quite upset at the attitude of some of the women on here.

I visited some of the feminist sections and wow! Misandry galore. We are always being told feminism is about the progression of equality. But all I've seen seen so far is hateful stereotyping and over offensive cliches about certain sections of the male gender.

This troubles me for a number of reasons.
How on earth do they expect to progress equality if they still can't shake off these age old stereotypes about men?

Isn't stereotyping what they've always accused us of doing to them?

Well, in all fairness, there is still a lot of prejudice against women out there and a lot of restrictive gender expectations that are kind of oppressive. On a largely female site I think it's natural that there should be a place for the ideologically inclined to vent their frustration at the slow pace of social change.

I admit that as a man the prejudice and unwillingness to empathise gets a little wearing and feels somewhat hypocritical given the stated aims of the movement, but if you believe in gender equality that's who our allies are I guess, so we just have to bite our tongues and suck it up until the world doesn't need gender rights activists any more.

Egalitarian feminism is a growing trend within the movement, so I expect the day of gender consensus is closer than the FWR boards (or MRA sites, for that matter) would otherwise suggest.

I've never taken the MRA seriously myself most of the ones I've encountered are worse than some of the radical feminists I've met.

Its just bothers me a lot that they still cling on to these stereotypes. I offered objective and differing viewpoints which while in some cases they may well be wrong, in would quite happily be proven wrong to further my own understanding of the situation. But they don't seem to be very open or even willing to let that happen. Instead they immediately become very patronising. I fail to see how that can be in any way helpful and in some cases its a little childish. Its such a shame.

You went to the feminist section and found, shock horror, feminists.

Try another section maybe?

Have you considered that maybe what you see as a stereotype which doesn't exist any more is a reality for many women? If you are approaching the topic along the lines of disbelief, prepare for people to attempt to persuade you. This is an emotive subject and will mean you get passionate responses.

Or, y'know, don't go onto 10 or so feminist threads in quick succession and post the kinds of things you have done, which were broadly about how wrong all the feminists were?

I don't have a problem with feminists for the most part. And I agree there are a lot of inequalities and stereotypes that women are a victim of. My brother is female to male transgendered and I'm active with him in a number of groups, I'm also active in anti domestic violence as my sister was a victim of it.

So I went to a thread about domestic violence expecting interesting conversation and be able to offer my viewpoint and where possible some advice about marches etc. But all I saw was very offensive stereotyping of men. That's not helpful to anyone. Not at all what I expected.

I watched Emma Watson's speech at the UN. I was actually shocked to hear a feminist say that part of the problem is men are left out of the conversation. I think an even bigger problem is the attitude I saw exhibited in that thread.

Your first post on the DV thread - which was about a potential campaign and whether male celebrities might support it - was nothing to do with your sister - it was all "as a man, I find this frankly offensive"

Because it was and is offensive. How is stereotyping men into categories in any way helpful?

Comments about men being childish because they okay video games? How does that have anything to do with domestic violence?

Welcome to Mumsnet, ubersquiz. Your behaviour on the FWR board this morning was indistinguishable to the MRAs that constantly troll there - that was why you got the reception you did.

Objecting to women discussing male violence against them is silencing them.

CheeseEqualsHappiness - I think OP was referring to the stereotypes that feminists have about men.

OP - I think it was a bit unlikely that the FWR board on a primarily female site was ever going to react well to even the most well intentioned advice from a man. Yes, it's sad that there's no place where men and women can debate these issues fairly and objectively with consensus as a goal, but that's where we are at the moment. I think the best that we can manage is to continue to plug away in our daily lives, confronting misogyny and misandry wherever we can make positive changes, and recognise that the end of the gender wars will not be our gift to our descendants but something they achieve for themselves.

How is posting on 10 threads about how wrong feminists are advancing your proclaimed cause, which is to share your thoughts on DV?

If you'd wanted to share your thoughts on DV, wouldn't you have started with a post on that topic, not spamming the board with critiques?

I do and will always find that offensive. Why is it not OK to stereotype a woman but then do exactly the same thing to men?
In really fail to see how that's in any way fair or equal. "Don't stereotype me you typical man"? Wtf!

If you think that's acceptable then something is clearly wrong with feminism.
I've always been told its about equality. That's not what I've witnessed so far. Quite the opposite.

To be fair you went looking for trouble, there are certainly some threads where you can go hmm seems a little hypocritical. But it is a board about feminism and women are an oppressed group. So I don't see why your looking for a fight.

Critiques are what make a movement go forward. If you don't listen to neither ideas or opinions then nothing changes, it just keeps going around in circles.

Neo, FWR absolutely does include men posting in good faith in the conversation.

When they spam the board with critiques, yep, they are treated more warily.

I wasn't nor am I looking for a fight. I merely offered a different idea. Isn't that what rational people do in discussions and debates? Or have I gotten it all wrong and everyone should just accept and agree with everything they say?

That's ridiculous.

I would have had a perfectly decent conversation with anyone. But if I see someone making stereotypical statements then I'm going to say something. Just as I would expect anyone else to. Its as simple as that really.

ubersquiz, you went in cold, to an established feminist board, like a bull in a china shop. You threw a load of accusations around about posters stereotyping men and then you start off a thread here slagging off feminists and chucking words like misandry in.

FYI -Plenty of men post on FWR and are welcome to. It does help that they don't start their posts "As a man...." because whether you realise it, or not, the subtext there is "....so listen to me."

Plenty of men also manage to post without sounding like MRA idiots here to tell women off.

Sabrina. If you read my posts I had no problem with discussing domestic violence. I welcome and encourage it as its a very real problem. But to reduce the conversation to making general assumptions about all men is completely unnecessary.

Since many people reacted to you in the same way, you might want to give some thought as to whether you went about things in the right way to achieve a constructive discussion?

The conversation was not "reduced to" that; the conversation was about a potential campaign on an issue you apparently care about; you made no comment on the problem or the campaign.

I have read your posts, uubersquiz. They are what prompted to post. You did have a problem with women discussing male violence - you called it 'stereotyping men'.

*prompted me to post.

What's wrong with stating that I'm a man? Wouldn't you state you were a woman?

I only did tat to highlight that the comments they were making were hurtful and not needed and do nothing to further the cause. Its exactly the kind of behaviour they claim to be stamping out.

Perhaps I could have put it better. I understand that its a very emotion topic but I'm not prepared to be tarred with a fictional brush. Simple as that really. I think its completely unfair to talk about domestic violence and make out that all men are the same. Even suggesting that much gets you into hot water. Which is wrong on so many levels.