Feminism

[slightreturn]

Please feel free to express your views honestly re; Feninism.
What to men really think about it?

Ok Annie. Personally I love the feminism board because it gives me a chance to learn a lot and broaden my horizons - everyone sees feminism slightly differently and brings their own experiences. Admittedly if you go in and say "feminism - you're doing it wrong!" without first finding out what people are doing, there would probably be a, um, reaction (as with any other topic). But if you talk to people with an open mind (and AFAIK all the posters in there are regular MNers, no "feminism only" ones) you might enjoy it.

Also worth mentioning that no one person is King or Queen of feminism, so if one person disagrees with you that doesn't mean that "the board" disagrees with you or "feminism as a whole" is against you.

Not when you tell me I'm being rude. I did try to make it clear that I realised I probably wasn't expressing myself very well.

I am, however, pleased to hear that feminists do, in fact, consider other groups too.

Dittany, I disagree that it's unfortunate. I am more than happy to have some feminist sites that look at other issues as well as "pure" misogyny, it's not a problem for me, as long as the issues are allied. I don't need to tell you that homophobia for example is an issue that affects the lives of many women, so a feminist site examining homophobia is not a "distraction" from feminism, it's part of it IMO.

And, as a final post (oh, damn me never being able to just walk away!).... do you realise, Pan and dittany, that you're effectively said to me, "how dare you, as a non-feminist, have an opinion on what feminists should do or not do. We're real feminists, so you can't possibly have a valid viewpoint on the matter." Perhaps not what you meant, but how it came across to me.

Anyway, way past my bedtime. Some of you I've met before on MN, some of you were new to me, either way, it's been entertaining, hope to cross paths with you again.

no-one said you were being rude annie. And yes you DID say you weren't expressing yourself well, which is fine. But as dittany indicates, and I somewhere, non-feminists feel free often to 'direct' when they are on the outside looking in. I have not been on the feminist boards so can't offer an opinion about what you do describe as gossip about it.

"Our 'development' as boys-to-men is quite different it seems, though I can appreciate most of what you refer to."

Indeed. I do wonder how much of an influence my father was on me as a boy even though he wasn't around much. He was such a crap dad that I think it did distort my view of maleness for a long time. Proving to myself that it is possible to be a good father made a big difference.

I can see what you're saying about rapists and serial killers. And, yes, you're right - there is probably a large amount of self-entitlement to what they do and why they do it and a lot of that could well be rooted in their view of masculinity. They presumably feel that it's acceptable to act out their anger and frustrations as violence.

I think the point I was struggling towards is that the fact that the people who predominantly do this are men, and the fact that I'm a man, does not mean that I should feel guilt by association for that coincidence.

Bugger, will you look at the time! This has been a very interesting thread. I'll come back to this tomorrow.

Annie - I am not a 'real' feminist. It's a consideration of mine as a result of this thread and my jury is still out - esp. as a bloke. And it isn't an exclusive club, as i see it anyway.

And one more!

I'd also like to point out that I'm not against feminism, and I certainly do support it and appreciate the life it has given me. I just prefer to take a wider viewpoint myself. I'm a feminist since it supports human rights, and I support human rights. So I am also a masculist, a... um... what do you call someone who supports disabled people? Or homosexuals? Or children? And an animal rights campaigner too. Call me a rights whore!

Here's a goodnight thought.... my spell-check recognises feminist, but not masculist (though that could be cos I can't spell).

dittany, seriously, I was in no way trying to get you to do anything other than think a tiny bit. I have far too much on my plate to add directing the feminist movement as well. I think you're seeing something in my posts that really wasn't my intention to put there.

As you were.

Each of those quotes starts, very clearly, "I think". My opinion. Small, lowly, generally to be ignored.

Perhaps I don't know enough about feminism. I will take that under consideration. I will consider myself duly chastised for holding an erroneous opinion on what feminists think about.

But now I really am going to bed, DH is finally out of the bathroom and I've got a busy day tomorrow.

And I wasn't implying that, on the whole, you don't think. Just that I was only trying to make you think, for a brief minute, about what I was saying. If what you thought was, "What tosh this bint is spounting!", then fair play!

Sorry if i misinterpreted dittany, I was trying to work out what you meant about it being "unfortunate" that Shakesville looks at those issues I mentioned. What did you mean?

Thanks. I know literally nothing about 4channers and google isn't helping (is it a him? a them? an it?) I think in terms of quantity of posts feminism isn't dealt with alone in more than 50% of them, but I think that's down to a) the range of contributors (many of whom I skip over) and b) the sheer volume of posts which is very high compared to other feminist sites that I read. So there might be 10 or 15 posts a day, and 8 posts or so a day on feminism is good in my book. Plus the feminism 101 is great.

What's with this new fashion to tell feminists they shouldn't try to further the women's movement in their own country? It's doing my head in and it seems like it's everywhere.
Western women cannot help women in other countries because they do not have enough power to do so. They have almost zero power in international politics and economics. It's a white man's game up there in the IMF, OECD and UN, let alone the leaders of hte western world, who are all men.
So can someone please explain to me how disenfranchised women, women with no economic or political parity with men, can run about the place righting the world?
Surely, if women focus on the women's movement, gain at least 50% of the seats in parliament, then they will be able to finally influence international politics and policies and we'll begin to see some real changes happening.

Am I allowed to say it's a little anti-feminist to tell feminists they shouldn't try to become equal to men, but should instead focus their energies on becoming medieval almsgivers by mopping up the messes their male counterpart has produced in the world?

Snorbs, I'm really enjoying your male input into the thread BTW.