Irish posters - "having a paddy"

[BarbaraHoward]

Irish posters - can I canvas your opinions on the use of "having a paddy" to mean "having a tantrum"? I've been having a bit of back and forth (well, plenty of forth not much back in truth) with MNHQ over the past day or two and I want to check that I'm not going against the majority view here.

IMO, the phrase is awful, and plainly anti Irish. I know most people using it aren't doing so to slag Irish people off, but the phrase is still awful IMO.

I've been here a long time, and reported the phrase more than I can remember. Usually, it's just deleted right away. Raising it on a thread always derails it as people just go on the offensive.

I reported it yesterday and got the immediate email that it was being checked out, but the post stayed up for hours despite a follow up email, another post and a thread in Site Stuff. It was then edited rather than deleted, which I thought was the norm for offensive language. I reported another use this morning and it's still up.

What are your views? Is this a fight worth having with MNHQ or am I out of step with the majority of Irish posters on here?

Thanks :)

This exactly.

Once people are made aware of the meaning then they should stop using it

Are you just being ridiculous on purpose or do you go on other threads about pejorative words and complain about not being able to use those too? Are you one of the “golliwogs are just cute little dolls” brigade by any chance? 🙄

Awful phrase and obviously offensive. It should definitely be deleted OP.
MNHQ should be calling this out every time.

I'm Irish and live in Ireland. I can't recall anyone saying having a paddy while I lived in England.
Paddy Wagon is a successful business, lots of stereotype colours and logos, and quite clever word play. Going round amazing tourist places, as opposed to prison.
Beyond the pale...we know our history. Those of us outside the pale are delighted with ourselves!
I'll get my coat...

''Benny''- wasn't he a young man with implied learning difficulties on a tv show?

That's not a good term to use, either. Google says it was 'Crossroads'

And yes of course, paddywhack is also offensive for exactly the same reasons. I am deeply sceptical of all the naive 'I didn't know' comments.

Well, I can see it is offensive, now it has been explained in this thread.

Before this, I just thought it was an expression. It was used by my (Irish) ex occasionally.

I've literally never heard of a Paddy wagon until this thread. I presume this is not a de Lorean ? What does it mean?

Absolutely hate it and feel it definitely has anti Irish sentiment. Agreed with pp... I don't give a crap if your great grandfather, twice removed, was Irish, it doesn't make it ok

I'm Irish and live in Ireland. It's a term never used in Ireland but I take it is used in UK? It's clearly racist and posts using it should be deleted.

@oakleaffy

''Benny''- wasn't he a young man with implied learning difficulties on a tv show?
That's not a good term to use, either. Google says it was 'Crossroads'

It was in use here long before Crossroads was on TV. The character wasn't known for tantrums so it's daft to think they are associated.

Should we do the same with other offensive words describing minority people groups?

No?
didn’t think so…

I'm sick of it too. I don't see us winning the war as so many aren't aware of the origins. And I don't have a problem with those who use it in innocence and take it on board when it's pointed out.

But I do hope this thread will help change MN's policy back, I'm disgusted that the one I reported this morning is still up and that I've had no response to my reply to MNHQ on my site stuff thread this morning. Perhaps if they see it's not just me they'll cop on a bit.

It refers to the Pale, the area of English settlement in Ireland. The implication is that everyone living beyond the pale (i.e. the native Irish) are savages.

However, 'pale' was also used for any area of settlement - e.g. the English settlement in Calais, so whether the phrase 'beyond the pale' refers to the Irish pale specifically is not clear.

My mum is Irish so, and I have Irish citizenship although I was born and raised in the UK. All my Irish relatives in Ireland call me a plastic paddy, so I have on occasion used that term to refer to myself. Horrified to now find out it's offensive to some. Is that the case? If so I'll make sure not to do so again - and will be having words with my cousins!

(On re-reading this comment sounds flippant. I don't mean it to be so. If there's a chance some people will be offended by its usage I'd be glad to know and will not use the term again.)

I am Irish and I hate it.
I don't understand how so many posters on Mumsnet are determined to defend its' use despite posters pointing out that they find it offensive. Most odd and not something I've come across on any other forum.

Maybe we should start referring to any greedy behaviour at a buffet as "pulling a George".

A Paddy wagon is a vehicle for transporting criminals who (of course) are probably Irish.

Another one people might stop is calling Irish speech inflections a 'brogue', the suggestion being that we sound as though we have shoes in our mouths.

Agree with you OP. Deletion would be a quick enough education.

I have never heard it used in Ireland. Historically the British didn’t think much of us and thought we were savages. Many people won’t think of it as offensive now days because they don’t associate Irish people with behaving like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

Thr origins of the phrase is not great but Irish people don’t face the same attitudes towards us that we once did so that is probably why I can’t get worked up about it. I can see why some would be offended though.

I'm 57 and I had no idea that it was an offensive term or linked to Ireland or the Irish at all.

I don't think I really use it as a term but won't now that I know.

I guess that shining a light on it like this can only help as I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people have no idea of where it came from or the offensive connotations.

Thanks for raising it.

A prison wagon - used to transport people to Courts and Prisons.

The phrase just reminds me of "no blacks, no dogs, no irish " . Hate it . Never hear it here in ireland

A ‘paddy wagon’ was slang for a police / prison van used to transport prisoners. You can see how the term fits the 19th century English trope of the Irish as savages, causing trouble and being subsequently arrested.

Lately a tour bus company have used the term on their garishly liveried coaches. They do tours around Ireland.

Thank you for explaining it.

I was trying to work out why anyone would comment on a car that happened to be full of Irish people!

There is no consistency to the rules. Ageism, sexism, racism... they just pick and choose which posts to remove.