Irish posters - "having a paddy"

[BarbaraHoward]

Irish posters - can I canvas your opinions on the use of "having a paddy" to mean "having a tantrum"? I've been having a bit of back and forth (well, plenty of forth not much back in truth) with MNHQ over the past day or two and I want to check that I'm not going against the majority view here.

IMO, the phrase is awful, and plainly anti Irish. I know most people using it aren't doing so to slag Irish people off, but the phrase is still awful IMO.

I've been here a long time, and reported the phrase more than I can remember. Usually, it's just deleted right away. Raising it on a thread always derails it as people just go on the offensive.

I reported it yesterday and got the immediate email that it was being checked out, but the post stayed up for hours despite a follow up email, another post and a thread in Site Stuff. It was then edited rather than deleted, which I thought was the norm for offensive language. I reported another use this morning and it's still up.

What are your views? Is this a fight worth having with MNHQ or am I out of step with the majority of Irish posters on here?

Thanks :)

I will be listening to Joe Duffy when he covers the Paddy Wagon tours controversy.
And rte cancelling Percy French for stereotypical Irish characters. And Val Doonican for Delaneys Donkey. Flann OBrien and Somerville and Ross should be banned.

A lot of comedy plays on stereotypes - tight Scotsman/Yorkshiremen; thieving Liverpudlians; thick Irish; soft Southerners etc. etc. Some are affectionate, some biting, some just lazy and rude. Telling an Irish joke doesn't make you a racist.

Depends on the Irish joke.

Dara O Briain talking about the three states of legality in Ireland ("that's grand", "don't push it" and "ah here now") is a different thing to a non-Irish kid being taught the one about paddy Irishman shouting "Weeee" going down the magic slide.

The etymology of 'hysterical' is remarkably offensive, irrational behaviour due to being female, and I think it is still a word usually applied to women rather than men.

I agree it depends on the joke, and am absolutely against being offended at everything. However, I think you certainly need to look at context and intent. I don't think the "Irish" joke objects implying Irish = stupid had good intent, it's downright rude.

Historically. hysterical absolutely has offensive misogynist overtones. Women were often treated for "hysteria" and put in asylums. We still have major issues with women's health not being taken as seriously as men's.

I agree with you @BarbaraHoward that some jokes are best left in the 1970s. Waterford Whispers News is often very clever, Hairy Baby Tshirts have great slogans. Father Ted, Derry Girls, Young Offenders - silly priests, wee English lad, obviously nothing to criticise in Cork like...
I think language changes and develops, tantrum and meltdown are much more likely.
(As an aside I had an acquaintance in England who was a Kentish man or a man of Kent which seemed to be an important distinction).

Also I assumed gyp was something to do with gyp rooms in Oxford and Cambridge. I don't think I know it outside novels!

Telling an Irish joke most certainly makes you racist. Ask yourself @GinForBreakfast would you tell jokes about other minorities? I highly doubt it. Your comment, and similar comments I've heard from mainly English people, highlights that Irish people remain "lesser" in the minds of many in the UK. It also proves that anti Irish sentiment is the last bastion of racism in the UK

@BarbaraHoward made my point better than I did. The Irish are the most scathing about themselves. Black comedians make absolutely brilliant comedy about black people. Australians relentlessly mock themselves about their national stereotypes etc. etc. Should we call them out for being racist?

The Phrase Finder adds that the first printed reference of the phrase "beyond the pale" (rather than just the word pale in its figurative sense) comes "from 1657 in John Harington's lyric poem The History of Polindor and Flostella."
Was he related to the John Harington who served in Ireland with Essex, and who wrote ‘A Short View on the State of Ireland’?

I think this again comes down to context and intent. If there is a historical context of oppression and racism and your intent is to pit someone down, it is not the same as a minority group being self-deprecating or appropriating labels for themselves eg the n word or queer.

*put not pit

For anyone keeping track, still no response to my report this morning.

I guess that means it's fine now? :/

Whether they agree with you or not a response would be good. Even a standard thank you for contacting us response.

Quite.

Very disappointing

Not surprising,

Some racist/offensive terms just aren't recognised. Nobody would use the n word etc yet apparently gypo/pikey is fine. Same with paddy. I don't know if it's because we look like the majority so apparently there's no racism there.

The child me who was called these things repeatedly throughout school would beg to differ. It can be really hurtful.

(To be clear I'm of Irish heritage, English born but also a traveller, but I get what you're saying OP and others completely. Last acceptable form of racism apparently 😬). If people could understand how these kinds of things cut deep I'd hope most decent people would just stop, it's not hard!

MN should sort this. They were quick enough to delete my jokey post about tooth fairy money for my husband yesterday and yet this is still left up ffs

Your tooth fairy post was deleted?! Why? I only caught a glimpse and thought it was funny.

I've seen some awful posts about travellers on here, definitely a group people seem to feel very comfortable discriminating against both on here and IRL.

I thought the tooth fairy post was funny but I'm obviously biased 🤣 I think they thought it was fake.

Yeah anti traveller stuff is just constant, never mind that I've been in a professional job and paying into the system for two decades

Damn it I want to know the tooth fairy story now !

The racism against travellers is appalling. I report it whenever I see it but it is rarely deleted.

That's the one I had, too!

It wasn't that interesting 😅. My husband pulled out his loose tooth with some pliers and demanded compensation from the tooth fairy so I asked what the going rate should be. I think it was pulled because I posted a photo of said tooth and pliers. Oops 😬

Apparently it's a fiver for the first tooth and a EUR for the rest according to the child I spoke to recently . Not sure if plier assisted removal is within the fairy's remit😀