SPHE whistleblower

[TheLurkingOne]

Is there already a thread about this? I didn't see one.
This teacher is speaking about a training session she attended re the delivery of the SPHE content in irish secondary schools. It seems the topic includes teaching children about porn, fisting, rimming.....

I'm all for classes for teens approaching the topic of porn, what it is, what it's implications are and the exploitation that comes with it, what constitutes a healthy relationship, sex, consent etc etc but this just seems unnecessary and graphic.

The later part of the video refers to the indoctrination of children, how politics and education are linked.

I'm interested in other people's views here. I almost don't know what to think. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of my young teen children being taught these things, but is it me who is being unreasonable? Is this stuff they need to know?

Not sure how to do clicky link; maybe this copy and paste will work.

I also think it's essential that young people are educated on what respect and consent looks like regardless of their gender identity. Otherwise they fill in their own blanks as others have said. I know a young person who's friend was sexually assaulted by another friend who then told them it couldn't be sexual assault because they were a trans male. And the young person who told me was genuinely confused about that. Just as they were totally confused when they were told that to be trans you also had to be open to polyamory.

Kids need to feel represented in order to understand the material and engage properly with it. Otherwise they're essentially on their own and bad things happen.

I also don't think it's realistic to say that this is 'sexualising children' when the average age of porn exposure is now something like 10 years old. We need to be raising children who have the skills to be robust in the face of what they'll be exposed to online and through friends, not forgetting children who will be sexually abused who need the right language to identify and explain what's happened to them.

The OP refers to fisting etc

The op is referencing an inaccurate scare video by a dubious group. I said that in one of the first comments.

"I also don't think it's realistic to say that this is 'sexualising children' when the average age of porn exposure is now something like 10 years old"
This to me is an issue though I am assuming that there is research backing up this figure.
But 2 things jump out to me.
First, if a 10 year old child is exposed to porn it is grooming and a form of abuse. It is never acceptable or should be taught as being OK. That is a child protection issue. I think it is important to remember that and I think that is the message the teacher in the video is trying to convey. That is an important message and I think to dismiss it as alarmist is a problem. Teacher are obligated by law to report all child protection issues to the relevant authorities, without exception, and I think that the SPHE approach, as outlined in the video, blurs the lines for teachers and leaves them in a very difficult situation.

I do understand though that this is about children who are accessing porn out of curiosity and trying to find a way to help them process what they might see and develop healthy attitudes towards sex and women as they grow. I think nobody wants a society of porn addled young people. But, I think, it angers parents that there is a shrug their shoulders, it's happening anyway.,approach by the government on this.

The second thing is that it's also important to remember that while some 10 year old children are accessing porn most, I suspect, aren't. My 10 year old still believed in Santa up to last Christmas. She doesn't have a phone and the same applies to her friends. When she goes online it's in the kitchen with a parent present. I know she hasn't accessed porn and I wouldn't want her to attend an SPHE class that assumes she has. That doesn't make me parent of the year, but I don't think am the exception. None of Dd's friends have phones. So, for those children who haven't been exposed to porn, then teaching them, on the assumption that they have, would be sexualising them at an age that many parents will feel is inappropriate for their children.

It is an emotive topic. While I do understand the pragmatic attempt to educate children on the realities of what is out there, in, I hope, an age appropriate way, I think that there is an argument that the pendulum might have swung a bit too far in the DCU training outlined in that video.

The video is false information please if you take nothing from any thread today understand that is a video produced by a group who are blatantly lying.

Primary sphe assumes nothing it is factual based puberty to sex and conception to birth
. What the group have done is included senior cycle learning topics to scare parents for their agenda.

Senior cycle learners are over the age of consent topics such as porn, revenge porn, practical safe sex guidance e.g. where to go if you have STI concerns are all legitimate topics.

Answering all questions about any sex or sexuality aspects has always been part and parcel. Cue people with agendas taking samples and saying ten year olds will learn fisting.

Please look at NCCA website for the source of the information for your own comfort.

For context I have ten year old, he and his friends haven't believed in Santa since first class. He knows about puberty, sex, conception and the correct names of the pride community. He knows some people hurt children and act inappropriately with them, I come from a family who have professions who support child abuse victims.

Just one word of caution your dd is in an unusual situation of having none of her peers on phones. That isn't typical reading the stats (my son doesn't have one but his class is probably 50/50 now) but do be aware older siblings of her friends may do.

The more realistic risk is them showing a screen grab on What's app or Snapchat over accessing something independently. I know this has sideswiped a lot of parents.

I know, by my own comments you can see I'm not a fan of the group either, I was just saying I didn't think the poster was referring to your anal sex post

I agree with what you're saying and I also agree that more needs to be done to stop children that young stumbling across porn through curiosity, and at the same time address safeguarding concerns appropriately. However this isn't new. I'm in my late 30s now and I remember 11 year olds in my year having sex for the first time. At 11 I didn't have the awareness to see that as the abuse it was because we'd never had that type of open education. I think it's not just about supporting children who have accessed porn, but equipping their friends as well. Most children at that age from what I've read tend to be accessing porn accidentally - for example my neice at 11 was taught by friends how to remove the parental controls on her phone and then she searched words online that she didn't understand that she was hearing in school and as a result came across lots of inappropriate stuff. If you're in there early enough in a safe and appropriate way you can give children information to remove some of that curiosity and teach them what to do if they do come across things they don't feel safe with. I still wouldn't remotely class that as sexualising children. I think that terminology is a bit ,perhaps, extreme. I think it's educating them on something they are likely to come across in some capacity so they are empowered and equipped to navigate that in a safer way. To me that's protective and a form of early intervention rather than sexualising.

I think the key here is that this must be done in an age appropriate way.

Who is the royal "they" you refer to? This is teachers we're talking about. I am a teacher. I have 0 training in SPHE. Woodwork and Technical drawing are my specialties. I have been given SPHE classes to teach. By virtue of being a teacher I can be sent in to teach your child this syllabus. I've looked at the syllabus document. And as far as I can see it wouldn't preclude me from teaching S&M and absolutely any sexual practice deemed to be pleasurable. There is no limit or boundary set in syllabus. No protection for your children or the teacher here. That's why teachers union says stick to department of education resources. This is why the publishers have come out books are so wildly different. A teacher will end up in court for one of 2 reasons if this isn't straightened out. 1. for presenting inappropriate material to minors AKA Grooming. Or 2. for refusing to cover a topic in class that they, in professional diligence believe to be inappropriate but turns out is not precluded by this useless syllabus. Do you get my point?

The devil's in the detail though isn't it. I see so much wrong with how the topic is handled on this page alone... Basically, go talk to your parents about masturbation but don't expect accurate information or healthy attitudes - We have the real information. (That sails frighteningly close to grooming) As a teacher and parent I wouldn't be happy with that at all. That's seriously undermining the parents influence, on a very sensitive topic. The parent is, by law, the primary educator and that should be respected. The tact taken here would leave any professional educator uncomfortable.

That age is not from a primary book.

A confidentially agreement is an atrocious idea - in one breath I could see a million ways in which it could be used and mis used to egregious extent?

Why do we say “the average age of porn exposure is 10” so we have to explain all about sex and porn.

Why not thrown those resources at trying to get the porn industry to control itself just a little bit??

I mean - junk food saturates the market so let’s show the difference between a McDonalds and Kebab?

What we actually do is sensible. We say this is healthy, that is shit, walk away.

@yesmen I think we do that because one is a short term strategy for protecting children and the other is long term. Tackling porn use across social media etc is a massive task that is absolutely important but requires a solid strategy and buy in from all key players. We don't actually have that yet so it's something that will hopefully be continued to be worked on. However children now are still being exposed so yes, they do still need to be equipped until we have a society which can function online in a safer and less harmful way.

What would you suggest as opposed to a confidentiality agreement? It is always well explained, usually generated by the young people themselves to ensure they really understand what it entails and why and they are very clear on when and how confidentiality will be breached. This is absolutely standard across many, many professional interactions with children from police to social services to youth work etc... why are all these professionals able to use it safely and you think schools couldn't? It's designed to stop children going out and bullying and gossiping and being harmful towards other pupils.

If you are a qualified teacher through the Irish system and can't determine the boundaries of the NCCA curriculum, while engaging in appropriate CPD then I would consider taking some reflection and target your next CPD towards the subject.

It is factitious to say oh I don't know the boundaries of grooming/ education when you engage in regular child protection training and have the curriculum.

If you have reached the standards to teach and can't interrupt this curriculum for 16-18+ year olds, I am sorry but in my opinion as an Irish third level educator that says more about you than the material.

Your facetious comment regarding S&M is the kind of nonsense used to rial up parents. If you haven't the capacity to interpret the curriculum, it isn't a syllabus.

This makes me think you may not be a teacher or a teacher in Ireland or if so are one who hasn't kept up with CPD properly.

The curriculum currently has significant supports signposting indicative content.

https://www.curriculumonline.ie/senior-cycle/sphe-old/sphe-toolkit/resources-for-learning-and-teaching-sphe-2024/

If you can't determine where the boundary is that is a professional capacity issue .

Teachers will teach the curriculum! Also the curriculum, specifically elements of RSE will be taught by external “experts”. No room for naivety.

The underlying premise of the curriculum is a ‘sex positive’ one. Neo feminists for one have taken issue with this. Consent has been placed therefore at the core of this premise. Of course it is naive and misleading to take such an approach, one that is ultimately damaging to young women and children.

So do we really want children from age 12 to learn in detail about anal sex, oral sex and how to masturbate etc? What happened decency and self control, romance and love? The classroom is not the place to violate and sexualise our children with this gross material. Labelling the people who produced the DCU sex education video 'far right' is not only untrue but is a crude attempt to demonise them so that the truth they have exposed is discounted. The material shown in the SPHE whistleblower video is from the actual DCU SPHE course and is irrefutable.

As a teacher of SPHE for over 20 years and a former associate with the JCT I have expressed concern on numerous occasions about anomalies in the updated specification which have left the content which would be taught open to a wide interpretation from authors and others...for example the glossary lists sexual intercourse (in all its forms), while gender identity is presented as an undisputed scientific fact.
Attempts to discredit this teachers evidence are unfair in my opinion...she shared what was presented to them in the course...technically much of this could be justified as their interpretation of the learning outcomes...she did not say that this was being taught in most schools but that it potentially could be..the fact that one of the books has a full chapter on masturbation is fact...not sensationalism, misinformation or scaremongering.
From my experience of receiving and facilitating Continuing Professional Development for teacher, active teaching methods such as the ones described in the video are employed to model how this would look in the classroom. Therefore while the group may not have been 'directed' to use these resources, it is certainly implied that they could be used in the classroom. Obviously teachers professional judgement would be required in this scenario.
Attempts to discredit this teachers with accusations of being far right are equally unhelpful...I am not a member of any organisation and speak only in my capacity as an experienced teacher and a mother..I have reviewed all the books and the online SPHE Toolkit and have serious concerns about some of the content...while I will use my judgement and not use some of these resources in the classroom...I have no doubt that some more 'progressive' teachers will make a judgement that these are appropriate...I believe in this case it is the parents job to decide whether the resources are appropriate for their child not a teacher who doesn't know them well enough to make that judgment.
Some previous attempts to have a discussion on my concerns have resulted in people (one of whom is an author of one of the controversial books) attempting to gaslight me and block me from an SPHE teachers forum...hence forgive me if I am cynical of some of the posts which I have read here!

It isn't material for 12 year olds that id false information as is lots of information in the video.

what it does contain is some of the material in the senior cycle so for 16+. That is individuals who have the legal recognition of being able to consent.

None of what you referenced should not be present. They need information and that is all it is it is factual information. An individuals values upbringing desires will effect how they use it

But no way in hell do I want to go back to the nonsense of brushing it under the carpet.

Please only consider this with fact based verified sources NCCA.ie publishes the curriculum has tools showing how the teachers approach and adapt materials for different learning groups.

Aged 12 is conception to birth. If they ask what is xyz a teacher will explain if it is within the curriculum of not will ask parents to.

And yes a 12 year old should know what masturbation is . They are usually in puberty knowing what is normal behaviour and removal of shame is exceptionally important.

I am flicking through the current SPHE 3rd year book: " Health and wellbeing ". There is no graphic mention of sexual activity but Transgenderism is treated as though it is the "truth". It is also given way more focus than LGB.
It also gives contact details for TENI, IndividualiTy, BeLongTo,and LGBT hotline. 4 for trans and 2 for LGBT.

2 for LGB mixed in with the T.

This is an issue where it’s important to keep talking about it as the more people that know about it the more that it gets pushed back on.
Also have those conversations in person as so many parents are relieved to find that they aren’t the only ones who don’t want their children taught about gender identity.
So many people I know are telling their kids at home that it’s nonsense.

Transgenderism is recognised by the medical professionals for decades. Your own view doesn't get to set the national education experienced team.

Tha same as a ultra religious family cam spout the no sex before marriage. But all children deserve to hear all of the info to remove ignorance at the very least.

Gender dysphoria as classified in the DSM 5. Teni, Belongto are not mental health professionals. They are ideologically based groups trying to impose their believe systems on children, in particular those with ASD which explains the rapid 4,000% uptick in young girls self identifying. Not there to help these young girls or boys when they want to de transition!