SPHE whistleblower

[TheLurkingOne]

Is there already a thread about this? I didn't see one.
This teacher is speaking about a training session she attended re the delivery of the SPHE content in irish secondary schools. It seems the topic includes teaching children about porn, fisting, rimming.....

I'm all for classes for teens approaching the topic of porn, what it is, what it's implications are and the exploitation that comes with it, what constitutes a healthy relationship, sex, consent etc etc but this just seems unnecessary and graphic.

The later part of the video refers to the indoctrination of children, how politics and education are linked.

I'm interested in other people's views here. I almost don't know what to think. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of my young teen children being taught these things, but is it me who is being unreasonable? Is this stuff they need to know?

Not sure how to do clicky link; maybe this copy and paste will work.

Trans people and gender reassignment exists,.that is factually correct. Medical professionals have worked in this area for decades.

A poster mentioned gender identity being taught as fact. We got a booklet home from school one time published by HSE and others for my then Primary aged child. It mentions gender identity as being a fact and that everyone has one.
Yes there are people who believe themselves to be the opposite sex, however that does not equate to the rest of us having a gender identity.

There should be caution about teaching these things in school. Most children who experience discomfort of struggle with the sex they are born with will not need treatment as things resolve themselves after puberty. Not to mention many teens who identify themselves as trans are more likely to have experienced sexual assault or other trauma.

The state should not be teaching my child or any other children things that are blatantly untrue or ideologically driven. The state are massively over stepping here.

Of course you have a gender you always do did. It simply didn't occur because your gender matches your sex.

I fully support information m, treatment can if required be explored when 18+.

Of course Jesus Saves, it simply doesn’t occur to you because you are an atheist.

i didn’t say gender. I said gender identity. Gender is mostly the social and cultural expectations and experiences that are a result due to the sex you were born.

Gender Identity isn’t the same thing. It’s defined as your own perception of your gender.

So no I don’t believe in teaching children that man/woman are feelings instead of biological reality.

There can be huge consequences to a young person’s health if they undergo hormones and surgery. So perhaps it’s better to support young people deal with the abuse or trauma have suffered before just mindlessly pretending that they are now the opposite sex.

Jesus Christ the absolute bollocks being sprouted here. No primary school teacher is sitting down teaching kids how to have Anal for fuck sake. The curriculum is available for parents to read, at secondary level there is space for students to have open discussions about areas of sex education that they are confused about or interested in, obviously teacher can not control what question might be asked by a pupil but they certainly aren’t giving out instruction leaflets on rimming and fisting.

And frankly every last one of you know this, for some reason you’ve decided to let drama get the better of yourselves.

And on the off chance anyone is actually interested in educating themselves, there’s a highlight on Jenny Keanes profile about SPHE and it explains what’s actually being taught : www.instagram.com/hellojennykeane?igsh=ZDlwZHpoY2JlbGwz

Totally agree, I asked my 10 year old yesterday what they do in SPHE, she said mostly talk about friends, bullying etc, very rarely even talk about their bodies etc

I understood that the video relates to the new Junior Cycle SPHE so I'm not sure why people are talking about primary school classes?

Utter nonsense. We all have a sex and a sexual orientation Gay , Bisexual or Straight. I'd be a bit hacked off if my kids were being taught that the Children of Lir literally transformed into swans. Regina Doherty told the Scottish Assembly there were 9 different genders. Fine, I will defend her right to these beliefs. But I don't want them taught as fact.

Like other posters I don't much like the sound of this Jana Lund person. But we are leaving these conservatives with an open goal. No socialist should have any truck with pink / blue brains , gendered souls and other such mind rot. Our goal should be to improve the material conditions of the working people. I'm not sure where teaching children to masturbate relates to that project. It's normal. Everyone does it ; nobody taught us !

A child under the age of concent has no need to learn about the niche practices of rimming, fisting and anal penetration.

This is not about ignorance.

And the majority will not come from homes where it is "scandelous".

There is so much one could do between the two positions of all or nothing.

To be fair, I think that most people assume that this thread is more about secondary schools than primary.
I am trying to formulate my thoughts on this.
I would have thought that very few parents would believe that teachers were likely to be teaching the inside and outs of fisting in classes, pardon the pun.
But then again, I would have think that, 10 years ago, very few would have believed that it would be the norm to teach students that boys can be girls, based on their inner gendered soul. But here we are.

My understanding is that teachers were being trained in the SPHE curriculum and this came up as how to deal with any potential questions that students might ask, rather than it actually being taught as part of the curriculum.
Whether they would be overreaching, or simply educating, is probably where opinions would differ.
I think that a lot of it goes back to the lack of trust parents have with the Department of Education and with the government in general about the pushing of topics such as gender identity as fact, which a very large amount of people profoundly disagree with, and, as seen in the other SPHE thread with Family A and Family B, their failure to understand that there are a lot of people out there who are neither far right or far left but who simply want basic common sense to come back into fashion.

It doesn't specify much. As a teacher who has thought SPHE in the past. I would feel very uncomfortable teaching such sensitive and important topics without proper syllabus. A parent consenting to this programme would have no insight from the NCCA's description. Only from seeing the book, which is provided in school by gov for free. See snipers below. 1 Secrecy - "What is shared in class stays in class". 2 Gender ideology. 3 Discuss masturbation with your parents (the primary educator!) for a very old fashioned insight! 😲 1 and 2 are in 1st year book and 3 is in 2nd yr book being used in loretto in Wexford and many more schools.

I see a lot of irate people on my parents' whattsapp group expressing concern about this video and it is interesting that some on this thread seem equally irate at the parents expressing their concerns. I'm not seeing a lot of evidence, facts or information from any quarter though.
If the information provided in the video is factually incorrect, specifically in relation to the DCU training, it would be really useful to have evidence of this.
I have am pretty skeptical about the source of the video but throwing around the 'right wing ' label and thinking that's enough to shut down discussion is getting really old now.
Openness and transparency regarding the Junior cycle SPHE materials is what is needed.

Where on earth did I mention rimming. I clearly said anal sex which is factual sexual activity between consenting adults.

I rather my child informed when asking what is xyz than ignored and then finding god knows what from the playground.

And you have the right to withdraw your child. I have the right for my children to be educated to a national framework curriculum that is fact based and has been peer reviewed.

Transgenderism is faith based NOT fact based.
You cannot be born with the wrong identity, unless it came from outside your body.

That's your opinion, the curriculum writers decision was to embrace the medical professionals and qualified psychiatrists.

They are following a trend. Medical advice is slowly moving away from affirming gender identity in children and I'm fairly sure very few doctors in ireland ever prescribed drugs to children that risked their sterilisation.

It's a long trend spanning since before the 60s. Regardless of medical treatment the transgender individuals are entitled to be represented and present in our education.

https://www.curriculumonline.ie/junior-cycle/short-courses/sphe/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYG5cc3cQmagYbzUnkiPft7XxKpU1zry1kMJN5RcYwdut1uGMDB5sULkaemSy6uS3zBbIUTR7OLVlvFA

that’s the curriculum there

And the resources associated:

1st year
https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/healthwellbeing/hse-education-programme/junior-cycle-sphe-training-resources/rse/relationships-and-sexuality-education.html?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaYlPctBxdlh8Lh5EJXRjwnHKOSJahpnIwdWEADZoUHKX52aN7dk0t6g60aemcW3nU1tTYkQpn4HotxTHeg

2nd year:

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/healthwellbeing/hse-education-programme/junior-cycle-sphe-training-resources/rse-2/rse-2.html?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAabMOXeKOsgjBSlK30tedY8-bGWpT9yHwupg1CeaJmffcHmMadVBytLJ5DsaemjrzODP1ISk1BCkKv5IrGQ

also with regards to what is discussed being kept secret. This is not asking children not to discuss with parents. It’s to prevent things that student disclose in SPHE being used against them by classmates in the form of bullying or otherwise.

But why isn't the material listed clearly on the syllabus? This is a subject where parents are asked to consent for their child. And there isn't a list of topics on the syllabus for a parent to view! So what are we consenting to exactly. Who?, with what qualification?, ideology? is going to "teach" my child about intimate sexual acts? I myself thought SPHE to Junior Cert students as a young teacher... absolutely no training in it, "follow the book" was my instruction! Why? Because it's not an exam subject... It was a timetable filler. So be careful, there is an absence of guidance, here, at best.

Genuinely, if you can find even a list of topics on that Junior Cycle Syllabus I would really like you to share it please. It's a feature of the new Junior Cycle programme. That's why book publishers are producing wildly different content for the same subject. The closest thing I can find is a "Glossary of Terms" in Appendix 2, and having read it, teaching about "fisting" could be required... "Sexual intercourse in all its forms" is listed.

https://www.curriculumonline.ie/getmedia/ca8f8975-50ca-4dc3-bba5-a04e25b4f978/JC_SPHE_Short_Course_2023.pdf

These kids are not long finished with Santa! Why are we sexualizing them? Can we think of no better start point for teaching about sex and sexuality than what can be placed in what hole? To land this on minors, must be traumatic for at least some of them. What adult plays that roll comfortably?? The focus of the previous SPHE programme was to empower young people, not scare the wits out of them. I think this SPHE programme will have a similar outcome to that associated with previous generations... Fear of their own sexuality because the material is simply too explicit, with big gaps. I mean, any mention of the Asexual? Did somebody get so carried away with a karma sutra mind-map that they forgot about Asexual kids? Or the S&M community? Are they represented? Should they be? The syllabus doesn't say. It says a lot about sexual pleasure broadly but it's completely open to interpretation, by publishers, teachers & parents. Not at all helpful for the anxious generation to be dealing with this, id say.

Personally I don't really have a problem with a lot of what is covered in this video. As a youth worker Friere's work is covered heavily in the training and I fully agree that education and politics are linked - purely because when someone becomes more informed and more confident in their own thinking they also tend to become a better advocate for themselves which extends into politics. It doesn't mean you need to go around pushing one particular agenda it means that you provide information and encourage young people to make up their own mind and think critically about it. So I feel like there's been a huge misinterpretation of that here because that, to me, is inherently a good thing when done appropriately. We should be enabling young people to take a stand for what they feel would give us a better society and themselves a better future as part of education.

I also understand why text books should stay in school - they're expensive, it takes pressure off children who would be expected to do huge amounts of work at home and children who are left to their own devices at home and it means all students have more equity in learning and resource.

In a class that's discussing sexual health I 100% agree there needs to be a confidentiality agreement and what's said in the room does need to stay in the room. You don't want kids going out and gossiping about questions asked or things other kids have said and you don't want parents discussing it unnecessarily either. There will be a safety clause with that where the confidentiality will be broken only in the appropriate way in order to safeguard on a need to know basis. I would never run any group covering a delicate topic without making an agreement like that with the group at the beginning. It's about generating respect and creating a safe space. I also don't see why any student should need to record what's happening in a class? For a start that's also a safeguarding concern given that many schools now have pupils who can't be on social media for safeguarding purposes.

I do feel like she's taken this and run with it and has scare mongered a bit in the process.

I went to a school where we were taught abstinence is the best way to be safe in a relationship and while we got the basic biology lessons and we got the basics of contraception we got nothing about porn or consent or how to actually be emotionally safe in a relationship. I think these conversations are key in the day and age we live in.