Referendum!

[springbrigid]

Anyone inclined to give an opinion? I am leaning towards a yes/no vote, the yes to remove what I see as sexist language in the constitution, the no because the government are so appalling in terms of providing services and rights to disabled citizens and I feel the clause is paternalistic and pushes care on families yet again

Ok, but then why not use de facto instead of durable if there's a precedent for it? De facto relationships in terms of immigration have a defined period of living together (2 years I think), so there are some parameters at least to work off. The term 'Durable' could mean anything.

I know it sounds like I'm nitpicking, I'm not getting at you per se - I'm just trying to understand why the government are not using the most clearly understood language possible. Presumably they would have gotten many consultations on this, including the wording. Which makes me think they are being deliberately vague so they can interpret it however they want in the future.

Anyway, like I said it's a no from me.

No, de facto are 5 years cohabitation but 2 if a child is involved.
I agree it’s vague and ill thought out.
I’m more focussed on clause 2 though, I agree w removing 42.2 but don’t understand why we can’t have a simple deletion. The proposed care clause is more neoliberal FG bullshit, ie privatising care and denying disabled people autonomy and rights.

Either way, if it’s a yes-yes then the main beneficiaries will be lawyers as per usual.

I am praying this doesnt go through. A govt that clearly dont have the best interests of irish people cant be trusted.

I am the same, between this and the hate speech bill, i really fear for the future of this country.
I think this government are the worst thing to happen to this country and I remember Haughey!

It's getting like a one party State out there. Very few if any alternatives to the group think going on.

That's the worry for me so how can we change anything really.

The way to change is to get out there, talk to everyone you can, explain this vote. When people are informed, they change to no. That’s what we need to focus on. Interesting that the referendum commission have not sent the impartial information booklet yet - are they planning on not doing it based on “the environmental waste’ but really because they now know that an informed electorate votes No.

I do not want the constitutional link between mother and woman to be erased, thus opening up the path for men to be considered mothers and surrogacy to be legalised.

If people actually read the constitution, and not journalists interpretation of it, the primacy of the family, marriage, women and mothers to the good of society is recognised and embedded. In our rush to be seen as the most progressive society in the world, we are in danger of throwing out the remaining protections for biological women in our constitution.

I have the booklet from The Electoral Commission and I read it. I'm voting no/no unless I hear a really compelling argument in favour of yes.

'Durable relationships'. Does that mean civil partnerships between couples ie long term unmarried couples with children or what other configurations could come into it?! I am in favour of marriage and I voted for same sex marriage.

I want women's contribution to the home to continue to be recognised. Why erase women's duties of care to a generalisation of 'family members'. Women work bloody hard and generally do all the caring duties. Include an additional line on the existing clause by all means but I don't like the removal of women and mothers. It feels like I am being erased!

No/no for me too

I'm trying to read a super thread on boards. A fair few seem to be yes. yes. I wonder what the general feel in the country is. I've talked to a few friends/ family they either don't know or are no. I haven't heard anyone pushing yes.

Unfortunately I've heard Yes Yes opinions mostly from young women. My niece is doing law and one of her lecturers is encouraging a Yes Yes vote, he's pissing her off big time with his attitude and doesn't want to listen to a different view, she's a No No voter.

The pending court case is outlined very well in this debate from the Claire Byrne show yesterday. Well worth a listen.
I felt that the No No side made stronger arguments. The scheduling of the referendum in the weeks before this case was due to heard in the Supreme Court makes me wonder why the Government didn't wait until after the Supreme Court ruling before setting a date for the Referendum. 🤔

https://www.rte.ie/radio/podcasts/22355941-referendum-debate/

Sorry to hear that, it's usually a good indication, though I think the Boards age profile may be 20s and 30s? . On a positive note there's no overt campaigning on the university campuses like there was for gay marriage, abortion, etc (I visit two separate campuses as part of my job). I think a lot of people won't bother voting on this one and I'm REALLY hoping there are a lot of quiet no voters out there that will actually vote on the day.

https://gript.ie/mcdowell-confident-both-referendums-will-be-defeated/?fbclid=IwAR1XJdMiBEiT0bWvVwPgN8wHKfa9_DOpQpa4mmcwtgyDFxjRLAVjDcJxZNE

Hopefully McDowell is right!

I looked at that pic of Mc Dowell, and honest to God I thought for a minute I was looking at the bould Mattie McGrath. Am I the only one who did a double take!

I wouldn't put Eamon Ryan in charge of an U5s football match.
This is the guy spouting his green credentials as he fecks up Dublin, yet he can fly off tho Brazil representing the Irish for St Patrick's Day God help us.
I've no time for Roderic O'Gorman either. Or Micheál or Leo.I'm not a Sinn Féin voter either.
I'm voting No & No as the country is in a terrible mess after them and I don't trust them not to feck it up even more.
Sorry rant over.

I still have a bit more reading and understanding to do but I'm 99% going to vote No/No.

Could someone explain to me what the 'inalienable rights' a family currently hold now that they are looking to afford to those in 'durable' relationships?

Apologies if this has been addressed below, I'm still reading through the thread.

NO/NO for me as they will have hidden stuff in there and add stuff in after the vote. Do not trust anything that they would try to get a yes vote on. Catherine Connolly had some very good things to say about why it should be a no vote.

This govt is destroying ireland for Irish people. What is it all about ?? Why?? There is active dismantling of the very fabric of society and to me this referendum is another box ticked.

I mean the hate speech bill - controlling opinion/ brought in by stealth by the powers that be. I am praying for an election so this can be stopped , that this govt can be halted.

I am not a sinn Fein voter either and wont be voting for them ever.The politicians we have dont even deserve a vote . A vote that was fought for in 1916..its just infuriating every day the same news

RTE - flagrant disregard for the people No accountability

The new childrens Hosp-more money - no end date !! Did you ever hear the likes .

Poor policing- communities not listened too. Everyone branded far right rather than the majority / strong numbers of genuine concerned citizens.

Omg its just mis information and lying to the people by our elected reps.
MsM dont ask any questions or the right ones. Tg for X and gript for some questions asked.
Its absolutely disgusting what is going on . My no no isint a backlash at the govt just that their actions seem always at
odds with whats best for ireland and its people and that is in fact what it is .

A de facto One Party State , if not de jure. That can last a long time but not indefinitely - witness Northern Ireland.

The scarey part , for me anyway , is there is no serious opposition from the left now. So the consensus might be broken by some right wing populist. If it can happen in Holland?

Catherine Connolly is the best TD in Dáil Éireann, @BOOTS52PollyPrissyPants . She was a proper Labour woman before Lab lost its way. Honest , intelligent, hard working and plain spoken. If she is for No that's enough for me tbh.

Does Catherine Connolly know what a woman is or is she TWAW?

Don't think I've heard her speak on it @OchonAgusOchonOh ? She is very good on the health service - or its failings. One of the few ppl on radio whose Irish I can - mostly- understand 😂

I seem to be the only person alarmed at the stealthy way 'assisted dying' is being shuffled along. I'll always be haunted by a Dutch teenager I met about 20 years ago - she knew she was dying, but pressure was put on her (against her mother's wishes) to finish things quickly because her illness was upsetting people and was not curable (she was actually enjoying life on a day to day level). The more I hear about the way it is being used in Canada the more alarmed I become.

I have no problem with immigrants, our hospitals and care homes and many other places need workers, and both my own parents emigrated in the 1950s (my father was an 'unvetted male, the horror) and I was, in consequence, born outside Ireland, so could be counted as an immigrant myself by someone looking at the census returns, despite 32 Irish-born great great grandparents and 50 years living here myself. I just don't trust this government.

They could have removed any offence caused by the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded by changing it to the institution of Marriage, a foundation of the Family. The fact that they have chosen this 'durable' nonsense shows they are up to something dodgy.

@DeanElderberry I am majorly triggered by this too.. Could it be a case of it's too costly to the state or family to try & keep someone alive.. "Assisted dying" would be recommended to put an end to a financial burden perhaps? Really against it. Also again it's not being suggested for the good of the Irish people.

Funny you should mention the Dutch, Holland is starting to veer to the right now after being one of the world's most liberal countries for many years.

There is only so much "progressiveness" the Irish are willing to take I feel.

'liberal' in the sense of making it legal to kill a teenager in order to save money.