Irish deaths

[Champooforyou]

I'm not Irish by the way, but I was just reading another thread about how Irish people manage death so much better, and I wondered how?

I'm south wales valleys and we're very comfortable with death, if someone is dying everyone knows and you'll go and visit, say your goodbyes. The family keep a vigil so no one dies alone. If you've missed the death you'll go to the Chapel of Rest and say goodbye. Everyone you ever met goes to the funeral, even people who you never met if they have a link, like they work with your daughter in law or suchlike.

After the funeral the family get cakes and pies and babysitting for weeks or months afterwards. On the anniversary everyone goes to the pub.

Suicide is talked about, it's not tabboo. The only sad death is if someone died alone or of course if they were young and it wasn't their time.

Are things the same in Ireland, or are you even better at death? I can't help wondering if it's so bad in England due to all the repressed emotion and stiff upper lip type stuff.

The strangest thing is at an English funeral. Everyone desperately trying not to show a smidgen of emotion. Then talking after as if they were at a party. No mention of the deceased or support for the bereaved.
It was like I'd stepped into another reality. It was awful.

@Flounder2022 I
You read way more into my posts than you needed to. Im not getting worked up about you at all. I don't understand why you would think that 🤷🏻‍♀️You did say you felt a bit sad for people who didn't experience the benefits you felt from the way you did it and I've replied that you don't need to! That's all

If I see that people suggesting that one type of funeral is 'better' than another or that some groups of people deal with death on a 'better' way than other then I like to give my opinion.

I've buried my dad and also both my ILs. Dad was ill and elderly and had good innings, FIL was sudden. But both funerals were similar.

The funerals themselves aren't big - but the crowd who usually are sizeable.
People come to share stories and their own memories of the deceased and there's a comfort in that. I found out so much about my father's younger years from the men his age who attended.

What is the biggest difference between England and Ireland though is the leave you get from work. I got a full paid week for my FIL and not a single manager said a peep other than to message with their condolences. I've seen posts on here where some only get a half day off on the day of the funeral - I could not imagine returning to work after burying someone I love. I was drained and wanted to rest.

The other notable difference is the presence of children at funerals. DS was 5 at his first grandparent's funeral and 7 at the next. The latter he saw the deceased laid out and I think it was healthy - he's a person who loved that person too and several years on he's not scarred, has lovely memories of the person that aren't linked to the coffin or the body within. It feels like he was able to wrap his head around loss and grief in a healthy way.

It's usually within a few days, but I like that. I couldn't imagine having to show up for work for weeks after seeing a loved one pass, carry on through those difficult first few days as normal in front of colleagues. This way, you sort of get carried along in the process for the few days and it's all over.

Even the perception of the Irish waking their deceased with alcohol has changed. You'd be offered a cup of tea if you turned up, rather than a drink. Being offered a drink is unusual. Similarly the afters are usually held in a restaurant or the parish hall with outside catering - not a drop of booze in sight. And most people are driving anyway.

"Pseudonamed
@Champooforyou you can hold off a few days too if you need to. A lot of our family was in Australia when my Grandmother died so we got a week before we buried her although cow she was I would have buried her before she died but that may be a different tale.

We’ve all had one of those in the family. Mine was also my granny. Whose grave I helped dig very cheerfully indeed, the cow bag."

Brilliant. I'm in NI and if you know you know!

Some people are 'taken' too soon and some not taken soon enough in my view!

You don't need to apologise or explain your perfectly natural feelings.

Anthropologists always use things like grave goods and rituals as a sort of marker for the emergence of civilisation.

Whether some religion or other is literally true is neither here nor there.

My apologies for taking you up wrong. The written word is not always as easy to decipher!

The strangest thing is at an English funeral. Everyone desperately trying not to show a smidgen of emotion. Then talking after as if they were at a party. No mention of the deceased or support for the bereaved.

And that happens at every English funeral? More than 650,000 people died in the UK last year, I'm amazed that you managed to attend all the English funerals to come to this conclusion.

All the ones I've been to. Compared to funerals not in England.

I’m English and think the idea of death being a part of life and someone who has passed still being in the family home while everyone says goodbye and tells stories sounds so natural. I do have some genuine questions though please if anyone can answer?

Doesn’t a death need to be signed off as natural and expected, some pp make it sound as is anyone who pops off is swiftly buried, no questions asked? What if someone dies suddenly?

My cleaner works in an undertakers and tells lots of stories about erm, noises, leakage, sewing mouths together, eye caps etc. what happens to the body while lying in a house for a few days?

What if someone dies very unexpectedly and tragically? I can understand it all being peaceful and smooth if granny dies at home aged 98, but what if it’s someone young in a car accident and the body is badly broken or the parents are just overcome by grief? I can’t imagine wanting to be welcoming to others in that situation or even receive their sorrow, wouldn’t they need time to process their own grief without having to deal with anyone else’s? Be numb at the very least?

Last question, if everyone who ever met the deceased turns up to a funeral, don’t their employers mind?! How many days a year can you take off to attend funerals?!

I absolutely mean no disrespect, I hate funerals over here, they are too formal and take so long to happen, it’s grim.

I would be so grateful if anyone would answer my questions. Thank you

If needed post mortoms happen within a couple of days They may delay things slightly but not by much, maybe a day or two as far as I know. Obviously if there is any police investigations it may be a longer process.

Im not sure what you mean by what happens to the body? The undertaker has done their thing, preparing the body, so nothing as far as I know 🤔

there will of course be times when for various reasons people want a more private affair, for example family only at the house. The death notice will outline this and people respect that. Generally the funeral would still be attended by anyone who wishes, but again if the notice indicated otherwise that would be respected (though so have never know that to happen in my experience).

it’s generally accepted that you can take reasonable time off work to attend a Funeral (at least in my experience). If it was someone close to me but not close family and I wished to also attend the burial/cremation and/or afters I would take some annual leave for the day.

this is just my experience of things of course!

this is just my experience of things of course!
 I was going to reply but then thought someone will come along and tell me I'm completely wrong so I swerved it. Well done @Flounder2022 your disclaimer may need to be added to any further discourse

Don’t be daft

@Flounder2022 thank you for your reply, I appreciate it.

When I asked what happened to the body, some pp seemed to be saying they had laid the body out (I forgot the exact wording, waked the body?). I was really grossly interested in what that entailed because the various things that happen in the hours/days following a death are not always pleasant or something I would want my children to deal with if it was me or for them to witness (eyes sinking, rigor, mouth hanging open, smells, leaking etc). I didn’t see mention of undertakers previously and that’s what I wondered about.

sorry for the graphic imagery and thanks again x

@Twinsmummy1812 So the body gets taken from wherever it was and brought to the undertakers for embalming and then brought home to be waked so no post death surprises or any of that, all is fine and the dead person looks as they would in life only ye know, in a coffin.

😁

I'm not sure if generally bodies get embalmed or not. Since the funeral happens I'm a couple of days they might not. My parents funeral director had a quick turnaround so I'm not convinced.

Everything said I concur with / my mum died in covid restrictions so we could only have 50 in the church but hundreds gathered in the car park where they had outside speakers, and came to the graveside & on the roads. My dad died last month & hundreds just came to the church. I'm NI & they were both hella Presbyterian.

Ah! That makes a lot more sense, thank you!

My father was not embalmed and never left the house until the funeral, so two nights. The undertakers laid him out in-situ. Nothing untoward happened.

Yes the death would need to be signed off and if necessary a post mortem be done.
Embalming is not necessary but from what I understand most people in Ireland are embalmed.
Taking time off work isn't really necessary unless it's someone very close to you like a good friend, family member or a neighbour. Neighbours in Ireland especially rural can be like family. Most people will have the opportunity to go to the funeral home in the evening or the funeral Mass/graveyard the next day.

Most people of a certain age in Ireland are very precise about having money saved for their funeral. They will have laid out their wishes and want things done a certain way.
There's no doubt about it funerals especially unexpected ones can be very tiring on the family. But the level of support and people's kindness is really touching. When someone you don't know takes the time to share with you something about the deceased it can mean a lot. You can get a glimpse into a side of your loved ones life you'd no idea of, be it through work, a hobby, volunteering etc. Just the very act that hundreds and hundreds of people will show up and queue to shake your hand and express condolences is a huge act of solidarity.
Many will know you or your family well, some will only have known the deceased or one family member but each and everyone have gone out of their way to sympathise with your loss.
I think the whole funeral process is a good distraction from those parts in those awful few days where a person is carried out or driven past their home for the last time, when the coffin is closed for the last time, when they leave the church and finally when they're buried. There's support and distractions around you. Depending on circumstances it maybe a bit of a blur but for those few days there's a lot less emptiness to fill and it gives time to transition.
When it comes to tragedies as ever its the immediate families decision what to do. I've occasionally expected a more private funeral but have yet to see it happen. As said above their maybe requests for the house to be private but there is always an opportunity for the wider public to be included in the mourning process. Often at these funerals there will be a guard of honour where adults/ kids from the deceased work, school, hobby etc will line each side of the street as the hearse and coffin drive from the church to cemetery. In traffic other cars will give way to the hearse and following cars or if approaching will pull in and stop. We always bless ourselves when we encounter a hearse with a coffin and some people will turn and walk a few steps with the hearse.

What a lovely and helpful answer thank you. I couldn’t face people after my dog died, I was so numb, then weirdly angry that people were going round normally, I can’t even begin to imagine what it would be like straight after a close family member’s death to have people popping round and having to interact straight away (at a future time great) but maybe I’m missing the point and it keeps you from wallowing?

I suppose anything that keeps you going and makes you feel supported is the best way forward!

I remember a similar feeling of alder when I was having a coffee in the shopping centre when I was shopping for a dress for my dads funeral. Did these people not know that the world had just changed forever??

But the people who came to see us, they were not just going about their lives as normal. They had stopped, taken their time to come to us, to be with us, to remember dad. Ok, his death did not impact their lives the same as it impacted ours, but it did still impact them and he mattered to them and they came to share that with us.

That's kind of how I see it anyways!

I think that’s lovely 🥰

I’m missing the point and it keeps you from wallowing?

That's how I felt when my dad died. It kind of distracts you through the first few days of raw grief, and all the while your brain is processing it in the background.

As well as that, when it's the normal process and you've been to dozens of houses to pay your respects, it's no surprise that people will turn up to yours.

You know that their world is in bits right now and at some point, it'll happen to you /has happened to you so you just have that empathy for them.

I'm really good to have at funerals I mingle and if I see a trapped family member going glassy eyed at some neighbours monologue, I join the conversation, take over and let them gratefully slip away for a bit of peace! I've the ability to chatter all sorts of shite so it might as well be a power used for good!