Irish deaths

[Champooforyou]

I'm not Irish by the way, but I was just reading another thread about how Irish people manage death so much better, and I wondered how?

I'm south wales valleys and we're very comfortable with death, if someone is dying everyone knows and you'll go and visit, say your goodbyes. The family keep a vigil so no one dies alone. If you've missed the death you'll go to the Chapel of Rest and say goodbye. Everyone you ever met goes to the funeral, even people who you never met if they have a link, like they work with your daughter in law or suchlike.

After the funeral the family get cakes and pies and babysitting for weeks or months afterwards. On the anniversary everyone goes to the pub.

Suicide is talked about, it's not tabboo. The only sad death is if someone died alone or of course if they were young and it wasn't their time.

Are things the same in Ireland, or are you even better at death? I can't help wondering if it's so bad in England due to all the repressed emotion and stiff upper lip type stuff.

I guess a lot depends on religion or belief. As an atheist someone's dead body is of no importance to me. It has no significance at all. I understand why it's important for others but once you are dead then the person is dead and the body is just a body.

I wouldn't ever worry about leaving a dead body alone.

When my Dad died and we had a direct cremation with no funeral or service we even left the cremation place deal with the ashes. We have no idea where all this took place either. We dealt with it by email. It was brilliant.

The whole thing only cost about £1200 too. We could have easily afforded more but we were very happy not to have done.

I suspect a lot of people in areas where it's more normal to have a big funeral go into debt or experience financial hardship due to the pressure to have a big funeral.

Exactly what I am doing

Can someone who wouldn't leave a dead body explain exactly why? Do you believe the dead person still exists somehow? Or do you think it's because a God would be aware? Or is it just convention? If it's to do with respecting the dead person then who are you respecting them for? What's the actual reason? Do you think people that don't do it are disrespectful?

It's only in recent years that anyone I know has been cremated but it doesn't seem to have had much of an impact on the length of time it takes. It didn't in my dads case certainly.

I am in no way religious. I have no faith at all. I don't believe in the afterlife or god.

My dad came home and while we didn't plan for someone to stay with him all night I'd say someone was with him most of the time just cos we were up and down all night, not sleeping much. As he was home when there wasn't someone with him he was still with us if that makes sense.

For me, he's my dad. I just wanted to be close to him, be with him as much as I could. I'm not sure if I can explain why the thoughts of him alone in a funeral home or church makes me sad and something I couldn't do. I guess because he belonged at home, with us.

But no, I wouldn't think negatively about anyone who does it differently. death is personal, we all deal with it our own way. But I suppose I would say that there is real comfort in the way a lot of us in Ireland do it.

My Gran was the most caustic mouthed woman I have ever had the displeasure to meet. Not a kind word out of her mouth. Lived till 101 years old too thus proving it really is only the good that die young.

@DrivingAllDay I can only answer for myself.

I believe energy can neither be created nor destroyed so therefore the energy that made up the person still exists in some form after death. Nothing to do with any God.

I find the fact you have no idea what happened to your father’s ashes very strange.

@JaneJeffer
I find the fact you have no idea what happened to your father’s ashes very strange^

My Dads ashes mean nothing to me or my family. We loved him. His personality and all the happy memories we have of him. It not 'strange' to not know or care about them. It sounded judgmental to suggest it was. 🫤

I certainly don't think one way is better. Everyone has to do what is right for them and their family. Yes there are traditions here but not everyone does them all or even any of them! And not a eye is batted.

For me when I arrived at the funeral and seeing so many people who loved my dad, it was such a comfort. I'm someone who likes people around me when I am upset and it was no different then.

I don't think we focus on death. It's definitely all about the person and celebrating their life.

I wonder why you need a death cert to be able to bury someone? Surely the fact that the person is clearly not still living is proof enough of death?

The 'nicest' if you can say that about a funeral I have been to was during covid. We lost a family member and at the time only 10 people were allowed at the church (bar priest and undertakers) and the crematorium and I really liked that it was so small but I am not a huge fan of people in general, least of all if I happen to be related to them, so that is why it was nice for me. Goes against everything Irish people are brought up with though.

You asked the question @DrivingAllDay and I answered you with honesty but without judgment. Your way would not be for me.

Aah but how can you be sure @Pseudonamed?

I stayed with the doctor when he pronounced my father dead watching him use the stethoscope when we both knew it was pointless. He was lovely and said it had to be done but I think I found that the hardest part.

https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/the-funeral-director/118399528355

I'm not sure if this was posted already as I haven't had time yet to read all the replies.
David McGowan really explains very eloquently how funerals in Ireland work. Really until watching it I never realised how much support the whole funeral structure gives families.

Why exactly do people think bigger, more public displays of grief are better? What is the actual reason for them being better than low key grieving. To me there is pressure then to have lots of people at the funeral, spend money, behave in a particular way in some societies. What happens when someone who is not a good person dies? Does everyone around them have to 'fake' grieve? In societies where it's the norm then I wonder if people end up spending money or attending funerals because they feel obliged too and not because they want to. I wonder if a lot of it is insincere - I'd hate the thought of people attending a funeral of someone they didn't even like but I bet that happens a lots in some places where you will be judged if you don't do the right thing.

It isn't "public displays of grief"... everyone is not wandering around wailing. There's actually a lot of laughter at the wake and the funeral buffet if people are sharing funny stories and anecdotes about the person who's just died.
People mention the deceased in a normal everyday manner, without awkwardness, changing/avoiding the subject, or hushed whispers.
If you are only an acquaintance, you might pop into the funeral at the church to pay your respects and then go on with your day - you wouldn't go to the gathering afterwards.

"What happens when someone who is not a good person dies?"
Well, as the old joke goes, some people may go just to make sure!

Of course people go to funerals out of a sense of obligation; that happens everywhere. There is no requirement to be fake grieving (see above, about just talking normally about dead people)

Attending funerals of acquaintances isn't insincerity, it's a completely different cultural norm.

@EggCustardTart
"People mention the deceased in a normal everyday manner, without awkwardness, changing/avoiding the subject, or hushed whispers"

Why would you think people that do low key or no funerals have an issue talking about 'the deceased'. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I don't and none of my family do. My friendship group dont either.

If you want a big funeral for whatever reason then that's grand. If it's comforting and helps then that's a good thing for you but if it suits you and your family to have no funeral then that's grand too. It does not mean that you have an issue with death at all.

It's only in recent years that anyone I know has been cremated but it doesn't seem to have had much of an impact on the length of time it takes.

I suppose it depends where you are. I'm at the stage in life when people I know are dying & it seems there's at least a two week wait to get a slot at a crem, the funerals I know of are in SE London and Kent.

A burial plot is several thousand, plus another £1k for an interment, presumably due to the lack of space.

I find it strange too, because it's alien to me, far removed to what I know. Just like you found the Welsh funeral strange.

I think maybe because I have felt the benefits of the way we do it, it makes me a little sad that others don't experience that.

Fair enough stay with the body when I'm dead if that's your thing. Support my loved ones if you honestly think they are missing me. Come to the funeral if you fancy a day off work with added afternoon tea.
But fuck right off with visiting me to say goodbye unless I invite you! I can't think of anything worse than wasting my final moments with my cousin, brother in law, neighbours, or colleague. You are not welcome. Bugger off.

@Flounder2022
I find it strange too, because it's alien to me, far removed to what I know. Just like you found the Welsh funeral strange."

"I think maybe because I have felt the benefits of the way we do it, it makes me a little sad that others don't experience"

As long as everyone does what suits them and their families then it doesn't matter does it. You shouldn't feel 'sad' for other people who don't do things the way you do. We were all very happy not to have a funeral. We don't need to be pitied for it! Being able to work out what suits you and your family is what matters. As long as people are not blindly doing things just because of convention or worry about doing the right thing then it's ok.

My main point though is that just because families chose very low key funerals or services it doesn't mean that they are emotionally repressed and not able to deal with death properly.

@TarasChoc - that is also available on Netflix (in case anyone can't access the RTE Player app)

I think one of the best things we have in Ireland is www.rip.ie where we can find out the details of any funeral that is happening in the country.

@DrivingAllDay I never said there was an issue with talking about the dead, or whether a bigger funeral is better or not.
My reply was in the context of your comment about "public displays of grief"

Nobody is saying that public displays of grief are "better" and in any case, what happens in Ireland isn't "public displays of grief". It's just a cultural norm that more people are buried than cremated (although that is changing) and more people attend the funeral, so they end up being bigger.

The family doesn't necessarily set out to have a big event, it just sort of happens because people will just turn up at the church.
People will attend a cremation service in the same way as a funeral, too.

Funerals are just ingrained in the culture. People will discuss going to a funeral as easily as they might discuss a wedding or a holiday or going to the pub. This is a country where death notices still read out on the local radio.

@EggCustardTart
Sorry if my post was unclear. There is nothing at all wrong with the Irish way of doing funerals. Public or private, it really doesn't matter as long as it's what the family wants. It's the assumption by some posters that a low key (or less) type of funeral means that the people involved are uptight about dealing with death and that the Irish way is better somehow. It's not. It's just a different way.

@DrivingAllDay Ah, fair enough.
I agree that low key does not equal uptight.

I'm not quite sure where you think I said or even implied any of that. In fact I quite clearly said, more than once, that death is a very personal thing, and everyone should mark it as they feel right for them.

All I have done is relay my experience and the positives of that for me and many people I know. I'm not sure why you are getting so worked up with me about it.

The families don't plan big funerals, it's just that people who would have known the deceased or a member of the deceased's family just turn up to the removals or church to pay their respects. It's usually just close friends and family plus the gravediggers who go to the afters of the funeral.