Is it likely Irish unification will happen in years to come?

[cuppateaandabiccie]

I’m in NI and I quite like being a part of the UK so I most certainly am against a United Ireland.

i like our education system and I know the health service is on its knees, but I’d rather not pay every time I need to go to the doctors.

obviously Sinn Fein are now the biggest party meaning they can nominate for First Minister - does this actually pose a risk to the union with the UK?

If the Deputy First Minister and First Minister both hold equal office - then surely they had the same chances of trying to implement a border poll when the they were Deputy First Minister?

if there was to be a border poll, do people think the majority would support Irish unity or go against it?

also, do people think the DUP will refuse to enter government with Sinn Fein as FM?

Well unless it’s totally changed we used to go on summer hols with my cousins in Dublin at the same time while all the English schools were still on.

Also, if you actually read my post I said that the differences between LC and A levels are similar to the differences between A levels and IB, ie NOT that LC and A levels are similar.

the overall point that I was making is that 1. The educational differences aren’t massive and 2. Even if they were, that is not going to be the most difficult issue on reunification.

Yes but they have the commonality of all being part of the UK.

…. That ‘commonality ‘ is an administrative link that Irish and Scottish nationalists wish to sever so I’m not sure what your point is .

Irish primary schools get summer holidays at the end of June till the start of September, secondary at the end of May until September.

Irish is compulsory in schools in the Republic as it is an official language of Ireland (unless you have an exemption which is given in limited circumstances).

The LC is the standard for schools in Ireland, the IB is accessible but limited.

Let's also not forget that Ireland is a tiny compared to Germany or the the UK. It would be difficult and expensive to run different educational systems.

Financially, in primary schools in Ireland parents pay for all books, workbooks, stationary, art supplies for children unless you are on a social welfare payment and can apply for books to be paid for or subsidised. Some schools have a book rental scheme but that is not common but becoming more common. It costs substantial amounts of money when returning to school each year, particularly for secondary students where books are more expensive.

Similar to the health system, in the Republic a huge amount of people pay thousands annually for private health insurance for the whole family as health care can be slow to access otherwise (not for emergencies though). €60 for anyone over 8 to visit the GP and all prescription costs must be paid for by the patient unless you have a medical card due to social welfare or serious illness reasons.

Besides practical reasons of integrating educational and health systems, financially I don't know how attractive that would be for residents of NI!

It is a lot more than an administrative link. Irish unionists consider themselves to be British rather than Irish. Its insulting to the people who have died on both sides over the years to dismiss it as an "administrative link"

Of course unionists view themselves as British . I don’t dispute that .
I think the problem they face is demographic and perhaps more importantly a government in the uk which doesn’t value their loyalty .
They may also fear that a united Ireland will result in them being treated as they once treated catholics / nationalists .
They don’t need to fear that .

So primary school term dates are in fact the same in NI and ROI then, @MondayTuesdayWednesday, which is what I said. Secondary schools in NI break up around the same time as primary save for GCSE and 6th form, when it does tend to be early June.

also, for the THIRD time, I didn’t say that IB was similar to the LC, nor did I say either of them were similar to A levels, nor did I say the IB was available in Ireland. The point I was making was that is possible to offer students within the same country a choice of exam options.

On the finance side yes, I agree, will have loads of issues there.

Oh and healthcare in NI is an absolute disgrace. I’ve had family members waiting for appointments and procedures for months and years. Since covid you can’t even see a GP in person (still!) in parts of Belfast. I’d be willing to bet that a significant proportion of people would be happy to pay up front for a system that actually worked.

Ive read that the south is investigating a newer health model based on the NHS .
Makes sense . Learn from the mistakes .
Health in NI is a mess because politicians are in silos and won’t close a local hospital or make a decision which requires seeing the bigger picture .
Im a nationalist ( probably clear !) but I’d be happy for Naomi Long to run the place

Irish unionists? You mean Northern Irish Unionists? They aren't Irish.

None of my family in the south want reunification. NI is as different to them as the U.K. There’s no appetite for it among them.

Colleagues in the north have much higher standards of living than my family in the south, due to vastly cheaper housing costs.

Yes there’s a shared history but lots of things are different now, even Tayto crisps are not the same!!

I don't know anyone in my circle that want an united Ireland myself included, the ROI is in enough debt as it is without taking on another 6 counties to add to that debt.

I don't know the answer to this but my mother (rip) who would be 87 this year would think reunification was marvellous. Irish living in England. And so would every other person she grew up with. But, living in England in the 60's she experienced real racism, the fear of the ira in the 80's was huge and people were fearful of young Irish men and so she learnt to be quiet about the whole thing. I grew up with tales of what the English Army had done to long dead cousins of hers. Many other people will have similar family tales but don't tell the stories in England outside of closed doors.

Good Friday was such a big deal, not wanting to rock the peace will be the biggest issue for many. So the desire for a United ireland is not as big for young people (under 40 ish) because the troubles are so far away from their families memories. Older generations will vote out of historic loyalties and younger generations will predominantly vote on economics. I would say Sein Fein need to get the vote in as soon as possible sailing on the wind of brexit.

Colleagues in the north have much higher standards of living than my family in the south, due to vastly cheaper housing costs

I don't think that's true, there is a lot more to living standards than housing costs. I mean sure, rent is cheaper, but you have to live in the UK!

Agree to an extent @sopsmum but I’m 35 and was 11 when the GFA was signed. I remember life during the troubles very well (school often closed in bomb scares, road blocks, riots every summer, searches in shops, helicopters always overhead, soldiers and armoured vehicles on the streets etc etc) and obviously my parents and wider family inc older cousins all lived through it and we lost a relative as did many many other families. It’s really not that long ago and I think when you say the desire is not as great for “younger people” you’d more be looking at people born after the GFA was signed, so in their early-mid 20s now.

The attitude of some people on this thread is blowing my mind. Particularly those who say that they (or Irish people they know in the south) feel that they have nothing in common with the north or northerners. Jesus Christ, take a holiday up north and open your minds!

I'm all for reunification. I don't have a clue when it will happen but governance in the north is clearly a disaster, and has been for some time, and I'm not sure why many people think the current shit-show up there is acceptable.

There will be things to sort out but nothing we can't cope with. It makes far more economic sense to have one country on the island, one civil service, one education system, one health service. Keeping two countries going on such a tiny island is not value for money.

Yes of course I meant NI unionists.

nothing we can't cope with
I don't want to find out if we can cope with loyalist paramilitaries thanks.

governance in the north is clearly a disaster, and has been for some time, and I'm not sure why many people think the current shit-show up there is acceptable.

It definitely isn't but I'm not sure why it's our problem that the British can't govern.

Um, we've been? That's how we know! Some of us go a lot.

NI is really nothing like Ireland, it's so...,British. You know the minute you hit the border. Your phone beeps to tell you that you've left the country and are now roaming outside the EU. The signs all change and you have to try and remember what the fuck a mile is. The houses look different, the street signs, the shops are all different. You go into one and its a different currency and you have to convert in your head or on your phone.

They have the NHS, GCSE's, Brexit and the hostile environment. The politics are insane. There's very little in common for us.

Yes, the governance in the North is a shit show, but why is that our problem? They made the shit show, they can fix it. It doesn't make sense that a country that is doing well economically, culturally and politically to take on a region that is not.

@MissusMaisel

Irish unionists? You mean Northern Irish Unionists? They aren't Irish

hmm don’t be so quick to make that statement. Northern Irish unionists are Irish and do see themselves as largely as Protestant Irish in the sense they live on the island of Ireland. Even Ian Paisley Snr described himself as such.

What they don’t subscribe to is being governed by the Republic of Ireland and this stems from historical ties to the Vatican. They see themselves as constitutionally British but Irish all the same. Just not part of the Irish republic. That is why it is deeply offensive when some nationalists say things like “Brits out” or “ go back to GB” and those sorts of statements are a big barrier to any sort of unification. Language is important because they are born and bred Irish men and women. That’s why they are entitled to Irish passports, play in rugby etc etc. I think nationalist parties like Sinn Fein are starting to realise that attitudes like these are important as a starting point.

having said that if there was a border poll tomorrow I would probably still vote to stay in UK for financial reasons and other practical reasons and we are not ready for unification. It’s a long way off

They're British, it's literally the point. They have UK passports.

*NI is really nothing like Ireland, it's so...,British. You know the minute you hit the border. Your phone beeps to tell you that you've left the country and are now roaming outside the EU. The signs all change and you have to try and remember what the fuck a mile is. The houses look different, the street signs, the shops are all different. You go into one and its a different currency and you have to convert in your head or on your phone.

They have the NHS, GCSE's, Brexit and the hostile environment. The politics are insane. There's very little in common for us*

Well here’s a commonality lol!
all the reasons you describe are reasons why NI most likely won’t vote for a United Ireland.
my daughter says she wouldn’t vote for it cos she’d have to get used to using euros as a currency, and she wouldn’t understand the km/hr road signs. We also can’t easily convert things in our heads! We must be related!

Although I’m here 42 years and I’ve never experienced hostilities. Never once witnessed it.

@MissusMaisel well to be fair the roaming charges is only a thing since Brexit, which NI voted against. And wow, I didn’t realise that GCSEs were such a big part of national identity!

Setting aside the superficial badges of nationality like flags and road signs, having lived in all of NI, ROI and England I can say that people in NI and ROI (even Protestants!) are pretty similar. Similar senses of humour, attitudes (eg to visitors, celebrations, death), food and obviously a shared language and a very long shared history. It’s as reductive to think or imply that everyone in NI is reflected by its politicians as it would be to suggest that ROI is in the grip of the church.

They're British, it's literally the point. They have UK passports

again nope!

I know some really really staunch unionists. They hold Irish passports only …not British and send their daughters to Irish dancing

my son holds both British and Irish passports.
you don’t really understand them at all do you