Is it likely Irish unification will happen in years to come?

[cuppateaandabiccie]

I’m in NI and I quite like being a part of the UK so I most certainly am against a United Ireland.

i like our education system and I know the health service is on its knees, but I’d rather not pay every time I need to go to the doctors.

obviously Sinn Fein are now the biggest party meaning they can nominate for First Minister - does this actually pose a risk to the union with the UK?

If the Deputy First Minister and First Minister both hold equal office - then surely they had the same chances of trying to implement a border poll when the they were Deputy First Minister?

if there was to be a border poll, do people think the majority would support Irish unity or go against it?

also, do people think the DUP will refuse to enter government with Sinn Fein as FM?

Sorry didn’t mean you did. It was another poster laughing at the idea flags were unimportant.

I did have a colleague in London who thought he had a brilliant solution. Send the 1m Irish home and ' fetch the Protestants over 'ere'. He genuinely couldn't see any problems with that! Of course there are way fewer Irish in Britain now , actually outnumbered by British ppl living in Ireland recently. Fwiw I didn't a quick poll of English ppl in this village on Brexit. Result : 2 think it's madness and 1 thinks it is great and Ireland should follow suit. Not a big sample I grant you.

Along with education, health, government, legal, flags and all the other differences/similiarities mentioned, there's currency, mileage, weights & measures, car numbering systems which people are very attached to and see as Irish/UK and would not like to see changed. And I'm sure there are many many more nuances I haven't even thought about yet. I actually don't think it will ever become a united Ireland like what the romantics want, but we might get a new Ireland. Where I'm living most people are ok with the notion that NI is now a separate place to Ireland and while it might be "nice" to be united, it won't happen and don't give it too much thought either.

It is the NHS in NI as it's funded in the same way - free at the point of delivery.

I think there is more mixing of young people in middle class areas. I read a study on it once; middle class kids were more used to going to various places to do activities whereas w/c kids stayed, schooled, socialised in a smaller area.

@sashagabadon i didn’t say at any point that flags “don’t matter” - as someone who grew up in Belfast during the troubles I can assure I understand the importance of flags very well.

the point I was making was that in all the difficulties of integrating two nations, from government to health to policing to education the fact that there would be a flag debate is not really the big point here. Like do you really think the unionists would be happy with a United ireland if they get to keep their flags?! Clearly not. It’s what the flag represents that matters.

There’s no reason why a country can’t have different education systems. Each German region sets its own curriculum, for example. In Italy and Spain, they run school systems in the regional languages.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on flags I think. NI unionists couldn’t keep the union flag as it belongs to the U.K. ( ie all 4 countries of the U.K) not NI so there’s a problem right there that is pretty unsolvable imo. Would RoI be happy to incorporate a bit of the union flag in the Irish tricolour to appease the Unionsts? I would say never in a month of Sundays . So what to do with a newly unified country, a completely new flag is needed.

i would say actually the subject of flags most people in the island of Ireland would have a opinion on far more than the arrangements for education or who decides what budget etc.
I agree it’s just one issue ( among a million others) but it’s one that will get everyone talking / arguing for sure.

I think you misunderstood my post - I didn’t say the Union Jack was the flag for NI, I said the NI flag was part of the Union Jack. Anyway I looked it up and turns out that’s wrong - the “northern Irish” bit of the Union Jack is actually the St Patrick saltire which used to represent Ireland as a whole.

Anyway, the tricolour literally represents peace between green and orange so surely that’s the logical choice?

I maintain the point that the flag thing is really not going to be the deciding factor in a border poll.

For those talking about flags isn't the Irish Flag actually Blue with I think a harp on it. The tricolour is the one used since independence but the old original flag was blue. I could have this totally arseways

Yes that flag was used until 1800 I think. And the current presidential standard flag looks very similar to it. Only thing is, if you squint your eye it's very Ryanair.

People in NI and the Republic have had vastly different histories, political and social policies and experiences

People in NI and the rest of the UK have had vastly different histories, political and social policies and experiences.

@sashagabadon can you explain what is incorrect in my post ?

The point I was making was that it is entirely possible to have a completely different education system within two parts of one country ( Scotland and England within the uk) . This was in response to a poster who listed education as a possible block to reunification.

Scotland has more autonomy than wales but is still subservient to London in terms of trade, defence , international treaties etc hence my example of Brexit ( imposed on Scotland and NI against the will of the people there based on the vote)

It is true that Northern Ireland won’t be a country in a united ireland but there will be some sort of federalisation I’m sure , esp initially . But Dublin will be in charge just as London is now .

Novella you seem to think Scotland and England are one country rather than what they actually are which is two separate countries within a union of 4 countries which is the U.K.
What you are suggesting is two different education systems WITHIN a single country so a better comparison is England itself having two different education systems which would be ridiculous. Surely you can see that?

There are various systems though - private, state, some weird system in Kent. Various exam boards. International baccalaureate etc.

Anyway I guess if the people decided two education systems, two healthcare systems, two currencies, two transport systems, two parliaments etc is what they want within one newly formed country then that’s up to them. Sounds expensive way to operate one country and divisive rather than uniting. I am trying to think of an equivalent in history where it has been done successfully. There may be templates out there that can be followed as to how to do it well. Federation springs to mind or states system like in the US although they are massive countries with big populations.

Firstly why would it be ridiculous ( Im talking in theory here @sashagabadon , just to be clear) for England to have two different education systems within one country ? They have in Germany- it’s called federalism - look it up.

Re Scotland and England - I wasn’t suggesting they were one country for goodness sake - I was using Scotland because it has more devolved powers than Wales ( sorry wales ) and well we all know that NI is semi detached and increasingly so.

Lastly you seem to imply that Scotland Wales England andNI are 4 independent countries . They aren’t! They have sone devolved powers but they cannot enact legislation in areas like trade defence immigration etc. London does all that - hence my example of Brexit .

But all under the same Department of Education WITHIN England, same government department/ minister, same ofsted, same national curriculum, same exam system generally, same LA oversight, same academy system. They are not under completely different jurisdictions and control.
anyway, just my musings , others are welcome to disagree!

@sashagabadon i think you are really stretching credulity in your argument .
Of course there won’t be two of everything .
some one upthread even suggested car number plates would be an issue 😂

All island organisations already exist and they will slowly increase .

Education isn’t even much different as between ROI and NI anyway. They already have the same terms/holidays which are slightly different from England (no idea what Wales and Scotland do). And the difference between Leaving Cert/A levels is similar to A levels vs IB which co exist within England without any problems.

The real issues are going to be financial.

Exam boards aren't restricted to their country though. We're nowhere near Wales but DS's school used the Welsh exam board for some of the GCSE exams!

Welsh schools can only use English boards if the subject is not offered by the Welsh board A number of vocational routes are Wales only. Scotland and Wales do not come under the Dept of Education - they have their own equivalents with different rules

Nonsense. We do not have the same terms and holidays at all, and the differences between LC and A-levels is huge!

Please don't trigger the irrelevant stuff about whatever exam boards are again.

Please don't consider this an excuse to explain what exam boards are.

you seem to think Scotland and England are one country rather than what they actually are which is two separate countries within a union of 4 countries which is the U.K.

There is some variation in how 'country' is defined @sashagabadon. However you define it, it's clear that the UK is a sovereign state while, individually, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not.

www.thoughtco.com/england-is-not-an-independent-country-1435413