Ireland's Calling for Normal Life to Return, thread number 5

[eggandonion]

Unlinked because I can't remember how to do it, and can't find Help thing.

I'm just after hearing about the locations of the vaccine centres. Now I have a mental image of like a drive through vaccine centre.
"Thank you for ordering the vaccine, please roll up your sleeve and continue to the next window."

Good summary, egg. I do get annoyed at people continually bashing how Ireland is doing on vaccinations when we've actually vaccinated a greater proportion than most countries in Europe, and fully vaccinated a greater proportion than the UK. The UK approach is a gamble as it's unclear whether people will get adequate immunity from the long gap between first and second doses and from mixing different types of vaccine where necessary (e.g. first dose Pfizer, second dose AZ). I hope it works out well for them, but it's concerning that many immunologists are against it; I guess we'll know in a few months.

Anyone know where I can order kids shoes with a quick delivery time? H&M are taking weeks as I’m waiting on an order of knickers and socks I placed on the 2nd from there. Discovered today that my child has outgrown every pair of shoes she owns 😭

Probably not the type of shoes you’re looking for, but I just bought kids trainers from lifestyle sports over lunch and it says they’ll be delivered tomorrow.

@Ballygowenwater Next usually delivers in 1-2 days

25% off too

Oh trainers is exactly what I’m after as a starting point so I’ll look at lifestyle. Also I’d forgotten how quick next is so will have a look there too. Fab thanks!

So @LizzieAnt it's actually worse than I thought if I understand you correctly. Are you saying the labs picked up on some abnormalities in samples but cervical check, the state owned administration body that communicate lab results (again public sector in Ireland) made mistakes on their letters?!!

@Sooverthis1
No, that's absolutely not what I'm saying. I'm sorry that I was unclear. Nobody knew the results were wrong until after the women had been diagnosed with cancer. Then their samples were looked again (audited), and it was found that though some women had negative results previously, these were in fact 'false negatives'. The (huge) delay was in communicating these new findings to the women involved, but it didn't affect their medical treatment at that stage. It was letting them know what might have been, I suppose, if their samples had been read differently earlier. This delay in communication understandably caused huge upset to those women and families involved. Knowing that their sample could have been read differently earlier would have been heartbreaking too.

However, the problem is that false negatives are absolutely unavoidable in screening (worldwide) though there is new technology now that will reduce their occurrence. Getting a false negative doesn't usually imply negligence (though of course it sometimes may) and every case should be looked at individually. A major problem is that, in the past, Cervical Check communicated the benefits of screening to women, but neglected to communicate its limitations. The false negative rate used to be 1 in 4, now it's about 1 in 10 I think. This is normal, but women didn't know. So there were problems with communication on many levels.

The present climate of litigation doesn't, in my opinion, help women though. I'm aware many will disagree. Open and honest communication is the way forward. If everyone who gets a false negative and develops cancer sues then screening programs - and not just for cervical cancer - will no longer be viable and many more will die as a result.

www.irishtimes.com/opinion/confusion-over-cervical-cancer-screening-needs-to-be-resolved-once-and-for-all-1.4433326?mode=amp

I think the Irish media has a lot to answer for the extent to which people misunderstand the Cervical Check controversy.

Absolutely, there was some hugely irresponsible reporting at the time.
I have the utmost sympathy for the women involved, it must have been/continue to be a terrifying nightmare. But what actually happened still seems to be widely misunderstood.

I know Ireland is going slow but vaccinations are been done correctly with both doses rather than one. We started a month later than the UK I think.
I'm fully vaccinated through work, the 2nd dose really knocked to be honest. Felt like I was hit with a truck. Some of my colleagues are awaiting their turn still for first dose.
My biggest worry is my DD, as she's in 6th year and this whole leaving cert fiasco is getting to her. I had to tell her to get out of the house as she hadn't left it in 2 weeks.
Hopefully this will be resolved this week.

Ireland is doing the 12 week Astra Zeneca gap between vaccines
According to the Irish times ?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-what-could-go-right-and-what-could-go-wrong-1.4485239%3fmode=amp

My relative, in health care, told me the az is supposed to have the long gap. She has the long gap.
My friend has a dd in Pfizer, they are all being vaccinated, not as part of the hse program, she had a4 week gap as recommended.

Thanks @LizzieAnt, I have to admit I still find it a little confusing. I also read in a paper about one poor woman who is going through this that despite getting results showing evidence of pre cancerous cells was told to wait a year to get another smear and from my understanding these are generally treated so it made no sense.
Does this mean that this is potentially something that can happen anywhere rather than mistakes made in labs that were outsourced by us here ?
Sorry to derail the thread and I agree i think it's how negative our media is which is difficult at the moment as no matter what, people need some hope. I even read a sentence today which stated something like the government hope that over 6 people can meet outside in September and I was just wtf when we look at the UK who are reporting a much more positive outlook....

@tazzy73

I know Ireland is going slow but vaccinations are been done correctly with both doses rather than one. We started a month later than the UK I think. I'm fully vaccinated through work, the 2nd dose really knocked to be honest. Felt like I was hit with a truck. Some of my colleagues are awaiting their turn still for first dose. My biggest worry is my DD, as she's in 6th year and this whole leaving cert fiasco is getting to her. I had to tell her to get out of the house as she hadn't left it in 2 weeks. Hopefully this will be resolved this week.

It's shown to be more effective with a 12 week gap.

The Pfizer might well also be more effective with a longer gap, it wasn't trialed though. Which is why so many counties aren't leaving it longer than three weeks (how it was trialed). The UK are effectiveness guinea pigs for the long gap with Pfizer.

@Sooverthis1
The reporting has been confused and confusing but, to answer your question, false negatives do happen everywhere unfortunately. It's since been determined that the labs Ireland used/uses (outsourced or not) do all perform to international standards. Dr Gabriel Scally was very critical of Cervical Check management/governance though.

You are somewhat protected after dose 1- The falling deaths and hospitalisations in the uk show that BUT results there are a Combination of lockdown and other measures too. Faced with no vaccine or a vaccine at a longer second dose time appeals to people desperate to be out of lockdown!!!

lThe mrna vaccines are more effective and offer more protection ie pfizer and moderna.
AZ i dont think should be used on health care staff offering only 65% protection and use vectors. Was fascinated to see the AZ uses an adeno virus that affects chimpanzees used as its vector . Not harmful etc etc etc
France have " jabbed-Boris's favourite word) 2million out of a population of 67 million- same pop as UK so at about 3% max of population.
The J and J one has an efficacy of about 58% ( disappointing )altho 1 jab
Ireland is at about 4.5% vaccinated (not each x 2 doses there on that %)just a cumulative of 1st and 2nd doses so not as bad as I thought !
I wish MM and Varadkar would just quit the negativity and seeing into the future with lockdowns ongoing ! Like give us a break !!

The thing about Astra Zeneca is it's the only one that tested for asymptomatic Covid , the others just tested symptomatic people in the trial so although the efficacy looks worse it seems more honest?

Interesting re France, I have family there and they are very vaccine-sceptic anyway there in general. They have a curfew and most of their retail, restaurants are closed but all schools/childcare (with obvs no masks on small children ) are open and it seems a lot more free than here with no km limit, the curfew might as well exist here anyway as nothing open etc. I get that they wear masks but so do our secondary school pupils. With the anount of childcare and schools open in France and Spain too how is it not going completely out of control if schools and childcare have such a big impact on the rate of infection?
But with French people i know a lot talk of vaccines forced on their kids by big pharma, when I ague that anytime I have had my dcs vaccinated I have had to sign a consent form , the Dr has shown me the vaccine, the ingredients and I have read the list of side effects and crucially anyone can refuse a vaccine, its sortof an anti establishment thing maybe which so not surprising their take-up is on the low/slow side in this case.

@Sooverthis1 I live on the border between France and Switzerland and France isn’t as vaccine sceptic as you’ve been led to believe. Everyone I know (French, Swiss and ExPat) are all pro vaccine, we can’t wait!!

Restaurants are allowed to open for take away only. Only essential shops are open but hairdressers are open. Curfew is 6pm to 6am unless you have a reason. Then you need to have an attestation - basically a form that says why you’re out and what time you left home.

I haven’t seen any checks being done. The last lockdown I was checked by Gendarmerie a few times. We might as well be locked down, nothing is open so there is little to do. Parks and forests are packed at the weekends because there is nothing else to do. There’s no sign of the ski slopes opening either. It’s not really any better here tbh.

@LongPauseNoAnswer It could just be my family in France and their friend groups that are quite sceptical re vaccines. I just remember many conversations and two just before covid where two of my friends were criticising drs "making" them give their newborns vaccines but appreciate this could be the exception. I have lots of french colleagues though who tell me in general its quite a vaccine sceptic country in comparison to other EU places.
They have still managed to keep their schools open and allow people to work and for there not to be a huge disparity between children which I think is a good thing in France and Spain and the curfew by all intents and purposes exists here as what would plp do anyway after 6 here, nothing open, you can't visit anyone, you can go beyond 5km..
I'm not at all saying it's all way better elsewhere but for a huge population like France to keep all its childcare and schools open , I wonder what is the effect on transmission. And yes all countries do things differently but closing down education for all and yes it is closed for us for going on 8 months is a huge thing. If other countries with much higher populations (health system more robust in France I imagine but still this virus had put massive pressure on even the best health systems) i think we have the right to wonder about it considering its not only impacting our children but also like in my case where I am freelance but can't work and am down thousands.

I follow French news and there was a lot of discussion about a third lockdown. It was widely expected but Macron didn't go for it. (It won't be long until the next election).

They were looking to get as far as mid-term break for schools and there was some talk about bringing the holidays forward. There is transmission of the virus in schools, particularly at break times in the canteens, when masks are off.

The British variant was slower to arrive over there. At the moment they are trying to curtail the South African and Brazilian variants. Their testing and contact tracing system is impressive. Their health system is under pressure but they seem to be holding tough.

The curfew at 6pm was not popular, especially with working people trying to get to the shops at the end of the day.

The French may be usually sceptical around the issue of vaccination, but there is a demand for this one. Many people have been trying to book an appointment online, but they are waiting for supplies.

I'm open to correction on any of the above, by the way.

Keeping the schools and childcare facilities open has made a massive difference to mental health both for kids and parents trying to work from home.

For sure Macron’s decision not to lock down for a third time was political. Unfortunately I’m not sure it has worked, Le Pen is gaining

It almost looks like a repeat of the last election.

There is concern around outbreaks in La Moselle and Dunkerque. For France, local lockdowns would be an option, I think, if numbers get very high.