Coronavirus ROI/NI number 4

[eggandonion]

I don't believe it, would it ever go away!

I too hope they stay in school. Although DS secondary school have 14 teachers out at the moment! One has definitely tested positive and some are isolating as close contacts. I can't see the kids learning much this year if there's going to be so many teachers out for 2 weeks at a time (not that it can be helped, I understand that)

Wow, LifeInAHamsterWheel, that's a lot of teachers out. It's going to be very disruptive in the coming weeks.

There's been a product recall on some hand sanitiser being used in schools due to health concerns

This virus is of no real risk to the under 70’s. Wuhan tested their entire population and found the asymptomatic did not spread the virus. They tested their door handles, tooth brushes etc. Why are we testing people who aren’t sick? 4 in 5 have no symptoms but positive swab. Never in the history of any virus have we tested people with no symptoms. There should be walk in clinics for those with symptoms (no appointment or referral) necessary. Money saved should be spent protecting the vulnerable - those in the 80 plus age range.

Why are we testing people who aren’t sick? 4 in 5 have no symptoms but positive swab. Never in the history of any virus have we tested people with no symptoms
I don't think they are testing normal people without symptoms or maybe they are if they are in contact with a positive case. I'd say it is the footballers, medical staff, those who need to be tested for work bringing numbers up of positive tests with no symptoms.

@EmeraldShamrock
Contacts are tested symptoms or not. If they are positive with no symptoms their contacts are tested and on and on it goes.

@WinterOrSpring
Wuhan tested their entire population and found the asymptomatic did not spread the virus.
Could you provide a reference for the above statement please?
I've read that truly asymptomatic people (as opposed to presymtomatic) may spread the virus less than those with symptoms, but I've seen no reports confirming that they don't spread it at all.
4 in 5 have no symptoms
The usual figures are that 20% of covid carriers remain asymptomatic, as far as I know.

My bil’s family of six have just had the virus, and all but one were asymptomatic . The one who developed symptoms got it last, and presumably had a higher viral load. She’s still quite sick. They got it from a friend of one of the dc who was also asymptomatic.

I think I’ll take the car up to collect the dc today, just in case they come out with full bags although I’ll be tempted to just send them right back inside if there’s a chance of them not going back after the break

No you have it backwards. Majority have no symptoms

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-53320155

www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cork-letterkenny-and-cavan-hospitals-exceed-normal-icu-capacity-over-covid-19-1.4382204?mode=amp

Studies - Asymptomatic

www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-06/09/c_139124412.htm

www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0965-6

Wasn't that early super-spreader from the ski resort asymptomatic? Although presumably symptomless people don't cough and therefore would spread viral droplets much less than people with symptoms.

There’s a lot of leeway in how ‘mild’ is defined to be fair.

Though the percentage requiring hospital care compared to the percentage of cases right now is pretty small.

@WinterOrSpring
There is a difference in being asymptomatic on the day of your test and remaining asymptomatic though. That's why I used the term 'truly asymptomatic' above.

My point is, I suppose, that this is a new virus. There has been a huge amount of research carried out over the last few months, but a consensus hasn't been reached - we're all still learning. It's usual for scientists to go back and forth on a subject, some papers will seemingly contradict others, that's all normal. They rarely if ever report their findings as definitive.

Care needs to be taken when interpreting these scientific results (a care that many journalists lack btw).
I don't think reporting that asymptomatic people can't spread the virus, as if it were fact, is useful.

Do you have any studies/articles to back up your theory that the majority develop symptoms? 40,000 studies done to date. Plenty of data out there now.

We have never in the history of viruses including previous C viruses tested asymptomatic people and/or considered a person without symptoms a ‘case’.

@WinterOrSpring That's true.

Asymptomatic people obviously can spread as otherwise this mess wouldn’t be as bad as it is.

What I’m not clear on is if people who are truly asymptomatic (as in, will never have symptoms, rather than pre-symptomatic) can spread and if so, does that have an impact on disease severity?

Asymptomatic is a loose term anyway. Is a runny nose a symptom? A tickly throat?

And while it may be important to identify asymptomatic people for the purposes of isolation, clearly the daily case numbers need a bit more nuance in their presentation if large numbers of people have no more than a sniffle.

It’s complicated.

@WinterOrSpring
It is not at all my theory that the majority develop symptoms. I don't know how many develop symptoms. At this point I don't think anyone knows for sure, though there have been various studies and various estimates. What I said above was:
The usual figures are that 20% of covid carriers remain asymptomatic, as far as I know.
I had read that in various places - an example is linked.
www.healthline.com/health-news/20-percent-of-people-with-covid-19-are-asymptomatic-but-can-spread-the-disease

But, my whole point to you is that we just don't know for sure yet. And in those circumstances, to be telling people definitively that it's been found that asymptomatic people don't spread the virus - as you did upthread - is irresponsible.

I said studies done in Wuhan and linked to those studies. Do you consider anyone with a different view point on this irresponsible? We now know we are not dealing with the Spanish flu. The latest CDC data shows it is on par or nearly on par with regular flu.

@WinterOrSpring
No, I don't consider everyone with a different viewpoint irresponsible
The Nature article you linked didn't seem to support your argument (though I have only had time to scan it as opposed to reading it properly, so forgive me if I've missed your point). The other Wuhan related article was a news story, I think.

I just think we all have to be careful when trying to interpret scientific results. Journalists need to be especially careful. In this case, I think you may have possibly misinterpreted the results. It seems to me that the Chinese tested nearly 10 million of the Wuhan population to check the area was safe. They found 300 or so people who had a positive result (from nucleic acid testing) but who were not shedding the virus. However, this was after dranconian measures to suppress the virus in this region. Only people like that 300 could have flown under the radar, so to speak. They may not at all be representative of the asymptomatic population in Ireland or elsewhere.

Science is nearly always a collaborative effort. It's the emerging picture as a whole we need to be mindful of.

My relation works with covid patients. She would like to do a test on everyone in the country, as they did in parts of China to get a snapshot of where Ireland stands. Also the north.
I think the Chinese authorities might be better able to organise this, but I take her point.
There are so many ifs and unknowns.

Ds was sent home from school today with the workbooks his school ordered (they dont usually have books), his copy books and even hit wet gear that he wears at break time.
My dsis child was sent home from a nearby school with all his books aswell.

Mine came home with empty bags

Nothing untoward here

Mine came home with all his books and copies. School is having another deep clean over the break so they had to clear everything.

Empty school bags here too. Teachers actually asked for the "keep at home" workbooks and copies to be brought in for correcting over the break 🤷

Very glad it's mid term. Even though both dh and I are working all next week, we all need a break from school.

Mine all home now, glad to be relaxing for the next week, although the homework given is crazy, I'm not sure when they're meant to relax.

I am actually relieved that they don't have 8 hours of mask wearing, constant sanitising, trying to SD 😂 I laugh cos the last one, is, or at least was, impossible in some cases, only that so many have positive results, some are close contacts and isolating it meant more space in the class.

They use their phones for books so nothing to come home. I doubt they'll be off for longer. I think if our schools burned down they would be made come in.

Only one school out of our 5 schools using the hand sanitiser that was recalled, thankfully ds had told me his hands were burning and felt on fire over a week ago, so I gave him extra bottles from the big 5lt we have here and told him not to use the schools, funny thing is the email I sent to the school about it last week, I got a reply saying ds must have sensitive hands... Anyway he's grand.

Scools all sent emails about how well everyone is doing, one school even prided themselves on how they had no cases funny that, cos I got 2 hse emails last week regarding positive cases. Oh well they must have forgot 🙄

It's been a tough couple of months, feels like they just completed the full year.

Anyway I can always look on the bright side, sil sent me a list of who is coming Christmas day 😂😂😂 she's gas, even has 8 people from the UK on it, I do wonder does she forget I live in a normal size house with 6 others.