The awful incident in Cavan

[hollyisalovelyname]

My thoughts are with the relatives and friends of those who died.
Just awful.
May they find some consolation somewhere.

why on earth is it appropriate to speculate on here?

That's the whole 'brush it under the carpet' mentality.

I know Sval is likely just being a goady fucker but I don't want to read the bullshit sentiments of people who don't want MN to talk about DV and murder.

Fair enough that it's being discussed, it's an important issue but it's for her family to decide if they want them buried together. It's not what I'd go for but presumably they know the situation better than I do and are better placed to make the decision. That's the bit I don't think we should be discussing.

With all respect sval if we don't discuss it, who speaks for Clodagh and her boys? Her family aren't, or can't. It's unthinkable that in any other situation that a murderer would be buried with his victims. It's the ultimate violation.

It is unthinkable, I agree. Issues need to be addressed but, sadly, it will not change anything for the family. I hope things will change for others, and by discussing the situation and what is wrong with the media attitudes such as describing her as his wife (though I haven't seen that as the BBC link didn't make that mistake) and other inappropriate things such as the school statement, then perhaps things will change.

They won't even say murdered. Every article talks about how he killed his wife and family, but he murdered them. I don't know why but it is really upsetting me that the media aren't making that distinction

Her Name Was Clodagh.

She had three sons.

All were murdered by a man they trusted.

I am disgusted by the press coverage of this terrible crime.

Her Name Was Clodagh.

Masking a murderer: Alan Hawe and the myth of the “good man who snapped”

If there’s been one thing more infuriating this week than the media coverage of the Hawe murders, it’s the backlash against those of us who have objected to it. “We don’t know the whole story!” “Stop jumping to conclusions!” “What about the family?”

Well, true: we don’t know the whole story. But this is what we do know – or, at least, what has been published widely without contradiction:

Alan Hawe murdered his wife and three children with a knife and hatchet
Prior to this, he was not known to the mental health services
He left a note inside the house explaining why he did it
This note expressed his view that his family members couldn’t cope without him
He left another note on the door to warn the next visitor

So, in brief: we know he committed a brutal familicide with intent and deliberation, with no evidence that would support an insanity verdict had he survived to be prosecuted, and in the apparent belief that the lives of his wife and children were nothing without him.

What enables us to draw conclusions from this is its chilling similarity to a number of other murders we know of. There’s even a name for it: family annihilation. And there are studies of it, and those studies clearly indicate that family annihilators share certain characteristics (in addition to being overwhelmingly male): narcissism, a sense of personal ownership of his wife and children, and often a previous history of abusive behaviour. Toxic masculinity, you might call it. Given that Alan Hawe’s murders fit the pattern of family annihilators, it’s really not a great leap to expect that his personality will also turn out to have done so.

This is true even if Clodagh Hawe’s own family had no idea, as reports suggest. Let’s face it, you don’t get to hack four people to death and still be eulogised as a pillar of your community unless you’re pretty good at hiding things. And besides, that’s also part of the pattern. As the study linked above concludes:

the annihilation makes public what had often been a private reality – a reality masked to family, friends and neighbours who often thought that this man had been a ‘doting’ and ‘loving’ father and ‘dutiful’ husband.

It’s understandable why Clodagh’s close friends and family would want to cling to the belief that her husband was a good man who just snapped. If you’ve never seen a terrible side to someone you thought you knew well, it’s really hard to accept that that side exists. I get this. And learning about a side of him you never saw until it was too late? The guilt one must feel would be unimaginable. Could I have seen this coming? Could I have done something? At a time of unbearable trauma, perhaps the one thing that can give comfort to survivors is the thought that they, at least, had not failed their loved ones by failing to somehow prevent their deaths.

But for others, who had no such ties to the family, the reluctance to acknowledge the pattern is more puzzling. Why would they rather believe that this was just a one-off “tragedy” that could not have been foreseen? What comfort does it bring them to think that anyone – maybe even themselves or someone they love – could just “snap” one day and butcher their entire family?

No, we don’t have all the facts, and maybe we never will. But here’s one fact we can be absolutely certain of: Clodagh’s death was not unique. And for that reason, as much as we wish to be respectful to her family in their grief, we cannot simply accept the narrative of the “good man who snapped”. We must try to look behind the façade of the devoted family man, and map out the murderer beneath. We must learn to recognise him, and more importantly, what made him. What makes all of them. If we persist in deluding ourselves that they just spring up spontaneously from nowhere, we will never learn how to ensure that they don’t. And the consequence will be a lot more Alan Hawes, and a lot more Clodaghs.

feministire.com/2016/09/03/masking-a-murderer-alan-hawe-and-the-myth-of-the-good-man-who-snapped/

Honeyrider thank you for posting that. It says everything that I've been thinking but don't possess the ability to put into words. I honestly despair though, there are so few of us it seems, willing to speak up against this sanitised view of family annilhators.

Nothing to add to honey riders excellent post.

But user, why the reference in the platitudes to the character of the man?

Yes, boilerplate is pretty common when a school or some other close knit community has been affected by a case like this.

But why not stick with, "We want to express our deepest condolences to the families of Clodagh and Alan at this terrible time"?

The statements are very much in the 'But, but, but...' vein, as if there can always be something to outweigh a brutal and senseless and cruel act of murder when the murderer is the husband and father.

A fantastic post, HoneyRider.

I think one of the reasons people are in a state of shock and disbelief about this is that people look the other way or try to talk themselves out of suspicions. There is a huge investment in giving men the benefit of the doubt, in always erring on the side of generosity of judgement towards a man.

This is expressed most egregiously in the statements to the effect that something snapped in Alan Howe - society and individuals within it are willing to throw people who are mentally ill under the bus in the rush to affirm their belief that domestic abuse couldn't possibly be widespread, and if it is widespread then abuse to the point of annihilation couldn't be an everyday possibility that women and children live with. Those making statements like that are trying to say that domestic abuse is something very marginal in Irish society, a problem that comes from unknown sources, impossible to predict and impossible to stop. The reality is of course that we know how to identify abusers and we know how to predict what they will do. We even have categories when it comes to the sort of abuse or murders they commit. We just choose to look the other way when it is all right under our noses.

I would bet big money that people will start remembering all sorts of important things they dismissed over the years when the truth is finally stated in an official report.

It also doesn't sit right with me that the family asked for donations to a suicide helpline. Clodagh and her sons didn't commit suicide.

I know it's the family's decision, but why not a domestic violence charity too?

Why is this even being discussed? It's a decision for the family and why on earth is it appropriate to speculate on here?

Because we do not think the same as the media (and others who have spoken) seem to think that Clodagh and her sons' deaths are merely by-products of the good man Alan Hawe tragic and unfortunate death.

Because this is not the first time a family annihilator has been mourned and and remembered fondly and the annihilated family seemingly ignored.

Because we think it's wrong the only time it's acceptable to murder is when you're a man and it's your family that you murder.

Thanks for excellent and insightful posts on this thread.

Thanks again for the excellent posts here- especially Math and Honey recently.

I wonder if some of the inclination to categorise these murders as a crime of "love" is based on fear.
As in, if that could happen to them, a lovely family, involved in schools and sports, "they're just like us".....
then the corollary is that it could happen to me

And that is scary to think about.

It's also scary to think about the responsibility we might have, to other women who are living in a similar situation (I know this is conjecture...).
So, if they are, it's scary to think about what I (the collective I) should/could do to help.

I might have to change how I think . Irish society might have to start behaving differently, as if women are valuable.

Much, much easier to file it under "once-off aberration"

Excellent thread and excellent posts.

In top of everything that has been said, there is an unfortunate tendency in Ireland to confuse someone's 'standing' in the community with their personal reality.

For instance, my parents were both teachers. Very high 'standing', very involved, very generous, on the face of it, very lovely people (which they were and are to others). They still kicked the shit out of me and my brother routinely for minor misdemeanours, were verbally abusive to us, we're and are verbally abusive to each other, are almost certainly alcoholics and have both hit each other on at least one occasion of which I'm aware (one time mother smashed a bottle over father's head while we were in the house). Absolutely NO ONE would believe this beyond me and my brother and I actually think my brother would be inclined to poo poo a lot of it now too.

Sorry to ramble, it's just to illustrate how make believe things can be actually be.

‘Focus on the victims of the murder-suicide’

Don Hennessy, who has worked with male perpetrators of domestic violence, believes Clodagh Hawe, 39, lived a very controlled life.

Clodagh, a national school teacher from Cavan was murdered in her home last Monday, by her husband Alan Hawe, 40, along with her children Liam, 13, Niall, 11, and Ryan, 6.

“Because of the meticulous nature of the murders, they were at a particular time, more than one note was prepared, she didn’t get to write a note, so what I believe is that this woman was very controlled,” said Mr Hennessy.

“Her life would have looked normal. She had a full-time job. By the sounds of it, she was a dedicated teacher. She was rearing three boys. Only when the door was closed in the home, were things different.”

Mr Hennessy is the author of How He Gets into Her Head: The Mind of the Male Intimate Abuser.

In terms of what is going on in the mind of a man who kills his partner and children, he said it comes down to control.

The man feels a) he knows the solution to the problem, b) he is arrogant enough to do it his way, and c) his children and wife have no say in the solution,” he stated.

These killers are often perceived as pillars of the community and even their partners remain loyal to that image of them.

“Outside of the house they aren’t aggressive, that’s the skill of these people.

“In the clubs, at GAA, in the community and the church he is the pillar of society and behind the hall door it’s a different story. And the partner remains loyal to him and that image,” Mr Hennessy told the Irish Examiner.

He added that many women live in deeply abusive relationships, where their existence is extremely controlled, and yet they are not physically assaulted. Therefore, it is difficult for friends, family or neighbours to see any signs.

“If you live in a semi-detached house a neighbour can hear the shouting or the verbal abuse, which is obvious, but there’s very little to be seen outside the home,” said Mr Hennessy.

He explained that the basic building block for any abuse is mind-control. This brings the victim to a place where they can no longer ascertain whether they are being abused or causing the abuse.

“Abuse is always two-fold. Only when the first step is put in place, the mind-control, where she now believes she is the cause and the solution to the problems and she spends her whole existence trying to measure up, she then loses her instinctive ability to know the difference between what is right and what is wrong,” he said.

He added that men who kill their partners and family carry a sense of entitlement.

“There is a sense of entitlement. There’s a sense of arrogance, that they are God of their own world.

“Of offenders I have met, they have no remorse, absolutely none. They have an explanation for it, it is not their fault.”

He also said that it can be difficult for people to reconcile the man they knew publicly with the act that he has committed privately.

“I meet women every day who are threatened. It’s being ignored because people have a viewpoint of the man, the ‘he’d never do anything like that.’

“Nobody who attacks a child’s mother can be regarded as a good father.”

Commenting specifically on the murder-suicide in Cavan, Mr Hennessy said we must not minimise it as a society.

“It is far more important to focus on the murders than the suicide here. He took their right to life from them. They had absolutely no say in it, he had absolutely no right to do it.

“The first thing that needs to happen is honesty, what we are getting is fudge,” he said.

“Some people need to sit down and ask how this could have happened. This was a man in complete control of his faculties.

“The essential thing is that we a) don’t minimise it, b) that we don’t normalise it and it is essential that we focus on the victims.”

www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/focus-on-the-victims-of-the-murder-suicide-419179.html

Finally one of the national newspapers has stopped the eulogising of this mass murderer.

Excellent thread. I have seen quite a lot of "how could he do that to those poor boys?" on social media. A lot lot lot less of "how could he do that to that poor woman?"
Because women being killed, meh. They don't really matter as much as children and it's always probably kind of their own fault.

Well said, and hats off to Don Hennessy. Finally.

While I linked to Paul Gilligan's paper earlier, I really want to smack him right now.
Not one word about Clodagh and even if this current newspaper piece is just a rehash of his article, he must surely have had the chance to work something in about how attitudes to children mirror those towards women.
But he is silent. This is so wrong.

I too thought the donation request for a suicide charity was really distasteful in light of the murders of 3 children and their mother.

Considering how the family have dealt the statements and funerals of the family, it is not unreasonable to suspect that they may have been a family who always looked for excuses or buried their head in the sand, either for religious or local village cultural reasons.

Can't get the image of Clodagh and her lovely boys out of my mind.

I'm not in Ireland and have only read about this story on bbc news website. The only photo I've seen is with the father with the three boys. I haven't even seen a photo of Clodagh 😢

I was always under the impression that Catholics considered suicide a mortal sin so was surprised he (I won't say us name) had been given a funeral Mass. However I looked into it and apparently it's down to the individual Priest to decide whether they will offer Last Rights/a funeral Mass.

In accordance with his Catholic beliefs, I hope he's burning in Hell.

The days of denying suicide victims a proper funeral are long gone.

I agree with everything everyone said. It reminds me, sadly, of the media coverage (and some public sympathy) over Oscar Pistorius. The second I heard about it, I thought male violence to woman, through and through but there was excuse after excuse, which of course he then took into the witness box. Nothing can excuse killing your wife and three lovely children. I almost feel like crying writing that sentence. That poor poor mother, those poor poor children. There is just no excuse, none at all.

Fair enough squoosh, I'm not exactly up on my Catholic doctrine.