The awful incident in Cavan

[hollyisalovelyname]

My thoughts are with the relatives and friends of those who died.
Just awful.
May they find some consolation somewhere.

Horrendous beyond belief.

I would not forgive him, ever, if I was a family member of Clodagh's or related to those lovely innocent boys.

If the extent of his crime had been beating his wife and children black and blue, breaking some bones, knocking some teeth out, the press and public would have been outraged that this national school vice principal, this pillar of the community could commit such a savage and barbaric act. But because he went even further than this in his brutality and murdered his family and then more importantly it seems killed himself there’s almost a feeling of not wanting to speak too ill of the dead. It’s such bullshit.

Loved the piece by Linnea Dunne.

Front page of today's Irish Mirror. 'I FORGIVE HIM'.

Paraphrase: Mother-in-law says she forgives son-in-law and he was 'not the Alan I knew'.

She only knew the image he presented of himself to her.

The poor woman's daughter and grandsons haven't even been dead a week. I doubt it's even sunk in that they're gone nevermind come to terms with the fact they were murdered by her son in law.

I think there are very few Irish families that don't have history of someone committing suicide on some branch somewhere and the vast majority of Irish families will also have members with Mh issues and/or depression.

Also an average of 19 men per 100,000 a year kill themselves in Ireland (low of 16 and high of 22 over 14 years). The UK rate is 16 per 100,000.

And yet the average rate of female homicide by a partner is 11 a year in the whole population. Clodagh was the first this year.

That alone tells you this is not likely a suicide problem but homicide. The conflation of mh/suicidality with domestic homicide stigmatises depression. Depression or being suicidal doesn't cause you to kill your family because otherwise the rates would be much higher.

fusion
That last paragraph....yes, exactly.

We live in a highly patriarchal country...with quite rigid social and class boundaries. The "rules" are very quiet but very strong.....

One of which is "ah sure, there but for the grace of god" which stifles dissent when things are just not ok. And "well, there are two sides to every story" ....

I'll have to find a lovely quote I found ...
EDIT: found it

"Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim" Elie Wiesel

I feel for the families caught up in this who would never have looked to be on the front page of the paper....and it still feels a bit ghoulish to comment.
But, thankfully, someone is reminding us that this woman and her children were brutally murdered in their home.

The press statement from the school is shocking.

Paragraph 3 leads with "Alan was a valued member of our school staff and our community."

How is that remotely appropriate? What the fuck were they thinking?

I saw that school statement and thought the same thing. It's as though his final acts aren't part of the calculation at all.

Fusion, you are spot on. It was a murder first and foremost.

A mass murder.

In trauma veritas?

If their basic beliefs or cornerstone philosophy or fundamental habit of mind were not there they couldn't come out, because they would have something far more appropriate to say, something that acknowledged reality.

The fundamental habit of mind in Ireland is to deny violence by men against women and children in the home and in wider society, but especially in the home.

People mutter about it, and there is deep anger about it, but the convention is always to ignore the significance of it and to ignore what the men who do it have in common, and not to sit down and ask what is wrong with the ideas the society gives men about themselves.

They still made a very bad call IMO.

Yy user.

People say a lot of things without thought or reflection when a microphone is shoved in their face, particularly when they haven't had time to process a traumatic event.

These aren't deeply-held beliefs suddenly coming to light. The typical behaviour in trauma is to go on autopilot and respond as shallowly as possible, without engaging deeper thought. Hence clichés and platitudes are so common in such situations - people are still reeling from the news and basically repeating familiar and comforting phrases rather than constructing something new and insightful about the situation.

The whole community, and especially the family, should be cut some slack for statements they made in the hours and even days after hearing the news.

I'm gobsmacked to read that a joint-funeral was held today and that the murderer has been buried alongside his victims. BBC Link

If I was a member of the family I'd want him buried on the other side of town from my loved ones

No I don't think I'll understand why Clodagh's family were happy to have her killer buried with her.

I read the line 'The bodies of Alan Hawe (41), his wife Clodagh (39) and thier sons Liam (13), Niall (11) and Ryan (6) have been reposing ...'

So whilst Ronan McGreevy has thoughtfully named everyone everyone else has been identified as a possession of Alan

Because funerals happen so quickly in Ireland families barely have time to think before the day of burial is upon them.

Why is this even being discussed? It's a decision for the family and why on earth is it appropriate to speculate on here?

Why on earth do women care about domestic abuse... Hmm?

Why wouldn't it be? Lots of posters do not want to be subjected to the ridiculous way this has been portrayed in the media and the collusive actions of Clodagh's family. It's the extreme end of domestic violence. Many posters on MN are affected by this.

Many of us have lived with men who 'seem lovely ' to the outside world. Many women are let down by family members. He was a bustard. He should have got on with him own suicide if he wanted to. The other lives were not for taking. It was an act of extreme rage and control.

*bastard